Frank Church Wilderness to allow chain saws......

[2rocky]

......to do trail clearing as an emergency measure.

https://www.facebook.com/IDOutfittersandGuides/posts/pfbid0SYezQmRk8jNSDmzxcEhAWSxJ2vVXENkLQwrbtjmDSh1ceDL5G1zAboYg594rgc2Rl

My thoughts?

I think this is a reasonable use of the technology that will allow this specific management area uphold its mission to be a place for hunters hikers and fishermen to access it. It doesn't let just anybody bring in a chainsaw, only approved trail crews.

 

[Elktrack]

It’s long overdue!
I think it’s a fantastic thing.

 

[atlas]

I did a summer in white bird on a trail crew in the gospel hump wilderness. Before the seasonals show up (me), the trail crew lead and several permanent FS employees float down the Salmon and clear trail in the Frank using Chainsaws. I think this happens in April and is in a chainsaw restriction exemption period because visitor use is low during that time of year. They head out from the river and clear as much trail as they can in a day and then float to the next trail. I guess now they can do it anytime of year.

 

[BuzzH]

Just another example of a way to make up for firing trail crews and slashing the FS budget.

Maybe next year they can allow motorcycles and atv's into the wilderness too.

 

[Elktrack]

Just another example of a way to make up for firing trail crews and slashing the FS budget.

Maybe next year they can allow motorcycles and atv's into the wilderness too.

It was needed long before the firing of crews and slashing of budgets.

I’m surprised you can’t see the benefit of it, being so familiar with our forests as you are. Some of these places are jumbled wastelands that resemble a pile of pick up sticks. The trails haven’t had proper attention and maintenance for decades.

 

[BuzzH]

It was needed long before the firing of crews and slashing of budgets.

I’m surprised you can’t see the benefit of it, being so familiar with our forests as you are. Some of these places are jumbled wastelands that resemble a pile of pick up sticks. The trails haven’t had proper attention and maintenance for decades.

If the budgets had not been slashed for my entire 39 year career, and we hadn't been asked to do more with less the whole time, I would be more sympathetic to your point of view.

But, as you so clearly pointed out, there's been a lack of budget and associated crews to deal with maintenance for decades. Now, because the final wheel fell off the bus, we get to change the rules to accommodate congress's lack of giving a shit about the FS budget and management of our/MY public lands.

Tough, start appropriating a budget, start hiring, and start taking care of public lands without taking a giant dump on the Wilderness Act.

 

[mtmuley]

If the budgets had not been slashed for my entire 39 year career, and we hadn't been asked to do more with less the whole time, I would be more sympathetic to your point of view.

But, as you so clearly pointed out, there's been a lack of budget and associated crews to deal with maintenance for decades. Now, because the final wheel fell off the bus, we get to change the rules to accommodate congress's lack of giving a shit about the FS budget and management of our/MY public lands.

Tough, start appropriating a budget, start hiring, and start taking care of public lands without taking a giant dump on the Wilderness Act.

I wish more work was done on other non wilderness trails. Shit, I've done some myself. Been going on a long time. mtmuley

 

[Elktrack]

If the budgets had not been slashed for my entire 39 year career, and we hadn't been asked to do more with less the whole time, I would be more sympathetic to your point of view.

But, as you so clearly pointed out, there's been a lack of budget and associated crews to deal with maintenance for decades. Now, because the final wheel fell off the bus, we get to change the rules to accommodate congress's lack of giving a shit about the FS budget and management of our/MY public lands.

Tough, start appropriating a budget, start hiring, and start taking care of public lands without taking a giant dump on the Wilderness Act.

I understand your view.

Another view might be that we don’t need a government agency to clear trails. With proper oversight and implementation to ensure it’s done properly, maybe it could mean budget dollars applied elsewhere.

 

[BuzzH]

I wish more work was done on other non wilderness trails. Shit, I've done some myself. Been going on a long time. mtmuley

Totally agree, lots of non-wilderness trails are in as bad, if not worse, shape than some of those in the Frank.

Not many Ranger Districts even have trail crews these days.

 

[BuzzH]

I understand your view.

Another view might be that we don’t need a government agency to clear trails. With proper oversight and implementation to ensure it’s done properly, maybe it could mean budget dollars applied elsewhere.

Where is the money for contracting the work going to come from?

Who is going to write the contracts? Know how many COR's took the DRP? Know how many are left? Who's going to inspect the trail contracts?

It's not as easy as just turning people loose with a chainsaw.

Never mind ignoring an Act of Congress passed in 1964...we can just pretend that doesn't exist when it's inconvenient to follow.

 

[Southern Elk]

I don’t have an opinion either way. I can say that I love seeing trails blocked by trees. It means less people in my hunting spots.

 

[TheTone]

I wish more work was done on other non wilderness trails. Shit, I've done some myself. Been going on a long time. mtmuley

Even brushing back roads would be a good start.

I drove one today that had several trees cut out only a couple inches wider than a pickup. You can basically see the land management agency that owns the roads office from it

 

[INMT]

I understand your view.

Another view might be that we don’t need a government agency to clear trails. With proper oversight and implementation to ensure it’s done properly, maybe it could mean budget dollars applied elsewhere.

Wouldn’t the budget dollars be spent on contracting crews? At a much higher rate to boot.

Or are you insinuating volunteers would clear trail!?! As someone that has worked trails both publicly and privately for over 20 years I can see your head is where the sun don’t shine.

Most don’t realize it but long time trail workers are a highly trained and skilled workforce and not just dirt diggers. Part engineer, surveyor, logger, arborist, carpenter, horseman, machine operator, woodsman, camp chef, etc. No volunteer or fly by night contractor will ever make up for local skill and knowledge.

 

[Matthew57]

Maybe next year they can allow motorcycles and atv's into the wilderness too.

This would be funny to me if my motorcycle fanatic friend wasn’t just telling me this should be allowed…

 

[Lasiocarpa]

Nothing in the Wilderness Act mentions Easy, Convenient, or Fast.
Maybe they can take a helicopter so they don’t have to walk so far either….

 

[MTTW]

I used to be very much against this but in the last 5 years I have been paying attention and I would say that 90 percent of the trees that I see cut out of the trail in the ABW have been cut with a chainsaw.

Trails will sit blown in for several years and then they will be cut out by the public with a chainsaw. I have seen it every where I go. Trail crews hit only a few high use trails. I think they have been way under staffed for many years and it will only get worse.

I think that good electric saws have contributed.
I have ran into 1 trail crew in 55 years of wandering around national forest in sw MT. But I tend to avoid more popular trails.

 

[Elktrack]

I’m not suggesting that a double mastectomy should be performed on the federal tits you boys are so fond of.
I’m just saying being able to use a chainsaw makes sense. Since your beloved FS is unable to maintain the trails and the actual users have been left with the chore, occasional strict use is a great idea.

Most trails are maintained by outfitters in the Frank Church until they are forced to find different routes because they can’t saw through miles of blow down. There’s trails that have been made in poor locations for erosion and such because they are the only way around rather than clear the trail.

In typical fed fashion you can’t grasp the idea of a non govt trained individual using a chainsaw to clear trail. Especially without a contract.
Ridiculous.

Hell, I bet if you just allowed the outfitters a small window of time each year, they’d have the trails cleared in short order. Probably get some BHA folks to tag along and help out too.

Interesting how anyone that suggests there are merits to allowing limited chainsaw use is automatically against wilderness, wants motorcycle access, and has a cranial suppository, etc.

If this was a proposal to allow the FS the same limited use to maintain the resources, you boys would be all for it.

Enjoy your evening

 

[Hem]

The year of my sheep hunt i was headed up a trail in to wilderness. Two trail workers were clearing the trail with a cross cut. Apparantly an outfitter complained. Actually the woman was cutting and the guy was watching. She was impressive.

 

[BuzzH]

I’m not suggesting that a double mastectomy should be performed on the federal tits you boys are so fond of.
I’m just saying being able to use a chainsaw makes sense. Since your beloved FS is unable to maintain the trails and the actual users have been left with the chore, occasional strict use is a great idea.

Most trails are maintained by outfitters in the Frank Church until they are forced to find different routes because they can’t saw through miles of blow down. There’s trails that have been made in poor locations for erosion and such because they are the only way around rather than clear the trail.

In typical fed fashion you can’t grasp the idea of a non govt trained individual using a chainsaw to clear trail. Especially without a contract.
Ridiculous.

Hell, I bet if you just allowed the outfitters a small window of time each year, they’d have the trails cleared in short order. Probably get some BHA folks to tag along and help out too.

Interesting how anyone that suggests there are merits to allowing limited chainsaw use is automatically against wilderness, wants motorcycle access, and has a cranial suppository, etc.

If this was a proposal to allow the FS the same limited use to maintain the resources, you boys would be all for it.

Enjoy your evening

What other laws, rules, and acts of congress do you feel aren't important?

 

[Elktrack]

What other laws, rules, and acts of congress do you feel aren't important?

Did you read the post? It’s all being done within the parameters of the law and the wilderness act.
Because sometimes it’s necessary to make adjustments for the good of the resource.