Forgotten Calibers

[Greybeard]

I have a Mosin Nagant M44 carbine 7.62x54R that's fun to shoot, but I've never killed a critter with it. I know a lot of animals have fallen to that round though. The M44 with the short barrel roars like a cannon and and makes a heck of a fireball when you shoot it at dusk.

 

[BrentD]

Europe, your list of calibers is definitely a collection of classics. 9.3x74r would be pretty darn nice in a double rifle. I would love one of those, but I have no idea what I would use it for. I would have to go back to Africa for sure! And if I did that, kudu and buffalo would be the choice. I need to rob a bank!

What about the old American classics? .30-06 and .30-30 aren't really old to me. They were the popular cartridges of my childhood, so old classics have to predate that - at least if you ask me.

So, what about the American hyphenateds? We all know the .45-2.1" (aka the 70), though I trust most have never seen it in its classic loadings. Yet, it works every bit as well as ever. And the .45-2.4" (aka the 90) and the .45-2.875" (aka the 110) are fantastic cartridges.

The .44s are truly the lost classics. .44-77 especially. They were very popular but now only known a relative few gun cranks. The better known .45s are nearly identical and far easier to supply with brass and dies.

There were .40s of course. The .40-70 was fairly popular as was the .40-90 Sharps bottleneck, but they are almost as rare as the .44s today.

I suppose most think of the .38-55. Yet, like the .45-70, it is rarely loaded like it was intended. Still a great cartridge though. If you want a very light elk rifle - this would be a nice choice in a vintage lever action repeater. I doubt a single person here would consider it for that however.

Back then there were just as many short-lived flash-in-the-pans as there is today. The "express" cartridges with light bullets in long cases came and went with little more than a ripple on the shooting ponds. The Everlastings also sank quickly into obscurity. Some of them attempted to hang with the coming overwhelmingly oppressive smokeless, hyper-fast cartridges like the .30-30. I use a .38-72 which is certainly old, but not classic. Works okay but too much powder really. Makes a nice light elk rifle however - laser fast, flat-shootin'! You betchya!

The old cartridges and, especially, the old rifles are really pretty amazing and a lot of fun to research, track down, and capture and then prepare for duty with special marinades, just like your first elk. It is a lot like hunting before you even draw a tag.

If you see and old, interesting rifle, don't be afraid to give it a try. You might end up selling all your .308s and man-buns, etc. and revisit the old ways. It can really add to your experience. You also will not give up much of anything in the way of freezer filling in the end.

 

[Europe]

Brent, you are so correct, on every point, and I must admit any knowledge I have of the rifles you speak of came from listening to my husband speak about them. I never was as interested in them as he was, and therefore can not talk about them intelligently. He had a few "replicas" through the years, but I think he was only able to accumulate two originals. They were made sometime in the 1870's, maybe 80's from memory. One was a sharp and one was something called a sharp borchardt. It was fascinating to me how accurate they were.

Thanks for the post, as you are correct, the ones you speak of are the truly old and obsolete ones

Besides Brent, who else hunts with these wonderful old rifles/calibers ?

 

[BrentD]

Sharps Borchardt also known as the model 1978. Some consider it the premier rifle made by Christian Sharps. I have one myself. Mine is a .38-55 Helms-style schuetzen target rifle, but they were made as militia rifles for North Carolina, Michigan and probably others, as well as sporting rifles. Truly far ahead of there time. Many were converted in to high pressure varmint rifles in the mid20th century.

This one is not mine, but rather a really nice example of a midrange target rifle.

 

[antelopedundee]

For the most part there's nothing stopping anyone from using a blast from the past if that's what they want. Brass might be hard to come by for some, but if there's a will there's usually a way. If enough interest in a particular case someone might supply it or one can start their own business.

 

[deer_shooter]

I once had an opportunity to buy a pristine Winchester 94 in 375 Win for a stupid price and I didn't buy it, a decision that still haunts me. Someday I will find a 348 Win, just to say i have it and a 7x57 in a Ruger #1 RSI has long been on my wish list.

 

[BrentD]

Would anyone be interested in a fine 1895 Winchester in .38-72?

It's not mine, but I know of one that has been listed for a while.

I failed to buy an 86 Winchester in .45-70 at a very good price once, but that does not haunt me anything like a certain Marlin 1895, .45-70.

If anyone knows of this gun and would be wiling to share any info about it, I would love to hear about it. I have been sort of slow motion stalking it for the last 2 decades or so.

 

[Europe]

Brent, hope you get it !

Brent, since the p.m. is not working ---Brent, unfortunately the first battery of tests did come back as hoped--will keep you posted

375--hopefully you will see this, I will get back to you when the pm problem has been corrected

 

[std7mag]

Europe,
While not popular here i understand the 6.5X57 is still thriving overseas.

For some reason people here think of it as a wildcat.
A lot here think it's actually a 6.5-257 Roberts.
Foolish, i know...

 

[huronmtns]

A smooth bore, my grandmother's grouse gun.

A 44 XL.

 

[huronmtns]

picture would not post

 

[Europe]

Europe,
While not popular here i understand the 6.5X57 is still thriving overseas.

For some reason people here think of it as a wildcat.
A lot here think it's actually a 6.5-257 Roberts.
Foolish, i know...

yes sir, the 6.5 x 57 and 6.5 x 57R are still very popular in Europe. I have a friend in Germany ( she also is too old to hunt now ) that hunted everything in Europe with her Drilling. It was an custom made drilling from the 1950 era --double 16 gauge / single 6.5 x 57R. She also had an insert for one of the shotgun barrels ( right one from memory ) that allowed her to hunt small game also

We had combination guns, but needless to say my husband had to have a drilling after we hunted with them the first time. Th man had rifleitis LOL

 

[bobbydean]

Europe,

Do you still have any these wonderful old rifles? Or, they distributed through out your family? Did you have a favorite rifle or shotgun?

Always a pleasure to read your posts and thank you for a reply.

 

[Europe]

bobbydean, thank you. As always you are very kind sir

Yes, our son and daughter have them and they are slowly moving into the hands of our grandchildren. There are several they both want like an old handgun that was made in Spain. Double barrel that has a foldable knife on top of the barrels--small gun probably six inches long overall, triggers are exposed when each barrel is cocked-- forgot the caliber. It still worked approx 10 years ago, dont know now.

Yes sir, without a doubt the 6.5 x 55 Swede, the 300H & H, the 375 H & H and the 450/400 N.E.. Shotgun a double barrel 12 gauge. Each were custom made to fit me and given to me by my husband usually as an anniversary gift. I have already mentioned that the shotgun was a Connecticut, but since that was not palatable to some I will not say who made the rifles, only that they were made in Germany and England.

Obviously the pm is working as I have been asked and will respond BUT people like Brent and many others here have far moire knowledge than I

The 6..5 x 57 Mauser ( from the 7 x 57 ) and the 6.5 x 55 Swede came along at approx the same time, before the 1900's. The 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher Schoenaur came along in the early 1900's. Yes, I like all three of them . I even liked the "combination", but never warmed up to the "drilling" But the drilling had a place in Europe where there were restrictions on the number of rifles/shotguns one could own.

As to what I hunted with the most, without a doubt the 300 and 375 H & H. I would take them with us on nearly all business trips in the off chance that a couple of hunting days could be added to the trip. If it was a dedicated hunting trip to Africa then the 300 H & H and the 450/400. If it was a dedicated hunting trip to Sweden then the Swede and the 300 H and H. If to Argentina then the 300 H & H and the 12 gauge--however if one goes to Argentina to hunt doves, take a semi auto, your body will thank you

As to the American made rifles before the 1900;s I will defer to Brent. If you have a specific question pm him--plus since I am new here, I am sure there are others here with this knowledge, I am just not aware of who they are, possibly Ben Lamb.

P.S. Sorry, I forgot one of the problems with old age. IMHO there is nothing in New Zealand that can not be hunted with the 300 H & H, or Equivalent . It was the only rifle I used when there.

 

[Dan O]

Europe,
Thank you for your posts I really enjoy reading them and learning about some of the firearms you and your husband used. One of your questions was regarding who else use the old style guns to hunt with. I have and have used several over the years. My first is a 1885 Highwall produced by Single Shot Inc. in Big Timber, Mt. in 45-70 aka 45 2.1. The other is a Shiloh Sharps #3 also originally chambered in 45-70 then later re chambered to 45 2.6 aka 45-100. Shiloh Sharps are also produced in Big Timber, Mt. I also have 2 other Shiloh's I use to shoot BPCR & BPTR they are in 45-70 and 40-65.

The Highwall I have taken a Antelope with and P. dogs and gophers, The #3 I have taken several Whitetail bucks with and hopefully take an Elk with it this fall. These rifles have a certain type of class that many of the new rifles just don't have. Plus they are just plain fun to shoot especially when you use Black Powder and bullets you cast yourself.


I look forward to reading more of your posts.


Have a great day,
Dan

 

[88man]

The 6.5 rem mag blows my mind that it is not more popular today.

 

[ImBillT]

Europe,
While not popular here i understand the 6.5X57 is still thriving overseas.

For some reason people here think of it as a wildcat.
A lot here think it's actually a 6.5-257 Roberts.
Foolish, i know...

I kinda wish I’d built a 6.5x57 instead of a 6.5-257AI. I wanted the longer neck, but life would have been much simpler if I’d gone with the 6.5x57.

The 6.5x57 and 6.5 Rem Mag are about the right capacity for the 6.5mm bore in my opinion. It’s a shame the 6.5x55 and 6.5-284 are so much more popular.

 

[OhHeyThereBen]

I'm enjoying reading the discussion guys! Thanks for the knowledge share. I think I need to go watch Quigley Down Under now.

 

[BrentD]

I'm enjoying reading the discussion guys! Thanks for the knowledge share. I think I need to go watch Quigley Down Under now.

and, perhaps, "Out of Africa", but not "Dances with Wolves" (Henry rimfires dropping charging bison instantly - not gonna happen).

An interesting thread would be movies that features hunting with interesting old rifles. They are not abundant.

 

[Greybeard]

and, perhaps, "Out of Africa", but not "Dances with Wolves" (Henry rimfires dropping charging bison instantly - not gonna happen).

An interesting thread would be movies that features hunting with interesting old rifles. They are not abundant.

"The Ghost and The Darkness" had some cool old guns too.