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[BuzzH]

BHR said, "far removed tax paying citizens when faced with $4.00 gasoline will favor drilling in remote parts "

Not true...case in point...ANWR.

I favor proper land management.

 

[BigHornRam]

The rancher haters here amaze me. The only part of the article you guy's focused on was the comments of the ranchers. Never mind that they could have been edited, manipulated, and taken out of context by the author. Not one mention about the motives of the author Magill. Anyone disagree that he pegs the weasel meter?

In Alberta, ranching, oil/gas industry, and hunting are all big contributers to their economy and way of life. My impression where I hunted there, was that they were doing a good job balancing these sometimes conflicting resources. Sure there is always room for improvement, but overall things are working.

In a meadow there were some fenced off areas used as test plots to show the effects of cattle grazing. The open areas were tall and lush. The fenced areas were weed choked and stunted. That was my observations of that particular area. The years rainfall, stocking conditions, and a number of other factors, have a lot to do with condition of the range in that area. The point is, cattle grazing can be beneficial to wildlife when done properly. To ignore this fact only makes one assume that one has an ax to grind with ranchers.

No where in the article does it mention the condition of the range in the area, good or bad. Yet uniformed guy's like Buzz called them "tools". So who has the agenda?

 

[BigHornRam]

"Not true...case in point...ANWR"

What was the price of gas when Clinton vetoed it Buzz? I rest my case.

 

[BuzzH]

BHR said, "The point is, cattle grazing can be beneficial to wildlife when done properly"

True, but the fact you keep ignoring is that most of the time cattle grazing is not "done properly" and the range gets pounded to dirt and weeds.

Oh, and how about Adobe Town in the Red Desert...another case in point.

BTW, how many wells has GW put in ANWR? I rest my case.

 

[BigHornRam]

So when President Hillary says "it's unfortunate, but we are going to have to open ANWR due to the Bush Administrations failed energy policies", we will see BuzzH leading the charge to set her straight?

"True, but the fact you keep ignoring is that most of the time cattle grazing is not "done properly" and the range gets pounded to dirt and weeds."

So what is the condition of this BLM range in article. Wouldn't it be prudent to know this prior to calling the ranchers "tools"?

 

[BuzzH]

The odds are heavily in my favor that I'm right...that the range, and in particular riparian areas, are in some sort of poor condition due to a welfare rancher.

 

[JoseCuervo]

BigWhore,

do you have any concerns about welfare ranchers, oil and gas extraction, and fat-assed ATV'ers abusing our public lands?

Or do you not care about hunting enough to worry?

 

[Oak]

Oak,

The only issues you whine about more than ranchers here is oil and gas extraction and ORV use and abuse. Not assuming anything.

I comment on irresponsible grazing practices, irresponsible oil and gas extraction and ORV abuse. I won't assume to know what you think, like you keep doing with me, so does your complacency on these issues mean that you don't care enough about hunting and wildife to be worried? I guess I could assume that you care more about the utility bill you get in the mail every month than you do about wildlife habitat?

If Roubideau isn't sage grouse habitat (I'll take your word on that), then maybe this area is a good place to drill for oil and gas, and wilderness designation is a bad idea. Agree or disagree? I personally would rather see oil/gas drilling there, than marginal places in Montana. But if the local people want to protect the area with wilderness designation, then I'm fine with that too.

I don't know if it's a good area to drill or not. I don't think many leases have been sold in the area, so I assume that it's not a very good area. If there is gas there, and (the 10,000 pound IF) it can be done responsibly, I think it is a good place to drill.

Grazing, Jensen said, takes a toll on the canyon for a while, but in the long term, it’s much healthier for the ecosystem than the damage careless off-road vehicles often do to the land.

What do you think the condition of the range is in Roubideau Canyon, if the rancher is actually admitting that grazing is "taking a toll"?

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

You dodged my question of whether or not you would hold Hillary to the same standards. You lived in Montana when Clinton was President, right? How come you never held him to the same standards you expect of Bush?

"The average number of federal oil and gas leases sold each year in Montana has fluctuated under the last three presidents: 199 in the first Bush administration, 301 in the Clinton administration and 260 under the current Bush administration."

Oak,

Never been there so I won't speculate on the condition of the range. You gave Clinton a pass for the above on another thread.....I'm just trying to get you to be consistant on grazing and oil/gas extraction issues.

 

[mtmiller]

Does leasing impact public land?

 

[BigHornRam]

Only if the leases are acted on. How many of the leases allowed during the Clinton Admistration turned into permits to drill during the Bush Administration? Someone with access to BLM records should look into that and let us know.

 

[mtmiller]

Only if the leases are acted on. How many of the leases allowed during the Clinton Admistration turned into permits to drill during the Bush Administration? Someone with access to BLM records should look into that and let us know.

Sounds like a good FOIA opp for you. Let me know how it turns out.

 

[BigHornRam]

Here's a lease that is being held up even though it brought record bid prices. Same author of the original article that started this thread.

By BOBBY MAGILL
The Daily Sentinel

Thursday, November 08, 2007

The quarterly Bureau of Land Management oil and gas lease sale set a state record Thursday, with one Garfield County parcel selling for $5.2 million, which resulted in an unprecedented price per acre.

The 200-acre parcel, sold to Larkspur-based Avalanche Energy, is within two miles of the Roan Plateau Planning Area, BLM spokeswoman Jaime Gardner said.

The high bid amounted to $26,000 an acre, the highest per-acre bid for an oil and gas lease in Colorado history, Gardner said. By contrast, the average per-acre bid in Thursday’s lease sale was $91.66.

The lease is under protest by the Center for Native Ecosystems, which means it won’t be granted to Avalanche Energy until the protest is resolved, she said.

 

[mtmiller]

Here's a lease that is being held up even though it brought record bid prices. Same author of the original article that started this thread.

So, leases should only be "held up" based on bid prices?

Do you know what the rational of the protest? Do you think there could be rational for the protest or is this only a $$$ issue?

Maybe the Centers rational is crap, I don't know. I don't agree that protests shouldn't be made in the case of record bids.

 

[BigHornRam]

This was your question Miller......

"Does leasing impact public land?"

Appearently the CFNE thinks so. Where were they when Clinton was leasing up Montana? The opposition likes to point out that leases don't cover the cost of administrating them. I'm just pointing out one that does is all.

 

[mtmiller]

This was your question Miller......

"Does leasing impact public land?"

Appearently the CFNE thinks so.

Or maybe they feel inadquate lease stipulations are the problem.

 

[mtmiller]

The opposition likes to point out that leases don't cover the cost of administrating them.

I am not familiar with this opposition, at least not in my office. Grazing leased, yes. Fluid mineral leases, no.

 

[BigHornRam]

"Or maybe they feel inadquate lease stipulations are the problem."

It would be nice to compare BLM lease stipulations from the Clinton Administration to this lease to see if that is the case......I know, another FOIA project for me.

I'm sure I recall in at least one of the articles posted here over the years, complaints of oil/gas leases not paying their way. You hear all the time that big oil is subsidized by the government. Here is an example that challenges that thinking, would you agree?

 

[1_pointer]

Grazing leased, yes.

Again, BLM does not lease grazing. You should know that... ;D

I'd be surprise if mineral leases cover the costs to administer them as well. I know it doesn't in our office.

 

[mtmiller]

Again, BLM does not lease grazing. You should know that... ;D

I'd be surprise if mineral leases cover the costs to administer them as well. I know it doesn't in our office.

Alright, got me. I also have been known to say antelope, but you know what I mean.

As for mineral leases, last quarter Montana/Dakota had 13 millions in receipts. I think that probably covered administration costs for the 3 month period, if not it was probably covered by royalties.