Elk Don’t Like Hikers

[beginnerhunter]

Probably going to be up to researchers to figure out what areas are most important
and when they are most vulnerable. Then place restrictions on them. I went to the beach this summer and they roped off areas where sea turtles had laid eggs. Not the whole beach, just areas that were sensitive. We weren't allowed to take selfies with the eggs.

 

[Bigjay73]

Sobering data here....

That is very telling, and disturbing. Will Co do anything substantial about it though, that's the question?

 

[Trial153]

Sobering for sure

 

[justinch]

I guess we can't "coexist" as much as they'd like to believe.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

That is very telling, and disturbing. Will Co do anything substantial about it though, that's the question?

This is my home town, short answer... no.

What can CPAW do is more the question. I drew a turkey tag for this area this past spring, there were some area closures for winter range that I wasn't aware were in place until I got to parking lot. I noticed cars parked at these trail heads and fresh tracks going up them. I called and left a message for the warden and never heard back, once I actually went and knocked on his door, as he lives literally at the trailhead and no one was home.

The reality is, in my experience, there just isn't any appetite to enforce anything. Non-consumptive users care more about their activity than animals, they just don't give a rip, they want to post there record time on strava and their not going to let elk get in the way of their training regime, on the other side of the spectrum you have hunter's who apparently would rather kill elk and deer busting through winter range looking for "brown gold" than with a rifle or bow during hunting season, the Utards are in full force all spring.

Sure CPAW can and has worked with user groups and other agencies to mitigate the issue and you could close down trails on a large scale basis, and eliminate or strictly enforce shed hunting, but there are far too few LEOs to enforce any rules and the local as well as NR seem completely unwilling to modify their behavior.

 

[ringer]

I have hunted the same unit for elk in Arizona for the last 40 years. We used to see maybe 3 or 4 hikers in a 2 week hunt along the Arizona Trail. They put little sign posts up a few years ago and the trail is clearly marked. I saw 30-40 hikers in my hunt last year and the best waterhole and mountain in the area was pretty much void of elk. I found the elk as they just move away from the trail and humans. People have the right to hike and we just have to adapt. I had a hiker drop by my blind and sit down at 5pm then he used a small water filter to drink from the tank. I told him there had been 40 head of cattle pissing and crapping in it an hour before and offered him water. He said the water tasted fine. Finally got up and left at last light. I found the elk a couple of miles away. People just do what they want.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

In all fairness to the non consumptive users, I’m guessing their behavior largely born of ignorance. Heck, I consider myself a fairly educated conservationist and I wasn’t aware of those numbers. I’ve seen, and honor calving area closures, but had no idea human intrusion could result in that level of mortality. Is it then fair to expect the same of trail runners and mountain bikers?

Nameless hit this on the head. It is a hugely important consideration as communities develop recreational economies. In terms of multiple use, it must be considered per federal law. How do you find and enforce the seasonal closures that must be included and implemented?

I think this again points back to a PR type tax on non consumptive outdoor users. Tax everything, from snowshoes to mountain bikes to kayaks, because at the end of the day they ALL have an impact on our lands and the wildlife and the fish.

 

[geetar]

The elk need to either adapt or die. I’m not going to let a few dead elk keep me from hammering the mountains and updating my ‘gram.

Lol that seems to to be the popular thing to do these days. I mean if grown men don’t post pictures of their workout did it even happen? “The gram “ must know every detail of my day and I must argue with all haters who think I’m a little over the top.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

In all fairness to the non consumptive users, I’m guessing their behavior largely born of ignorance.

Na, not buying that one. If you're ducking under a gate, which has a huge sign on it that says closed temporary closed for winter range, your just a POS.

There are certainly lots of areas that people are bumping elk and deer that aren't marked or with numerous access points, but I've seen first hand were non-consumptive users are walking straight passed well marked closures.

These trails are pretty well known in the community, its on the city website, posted on trail heads, and the lists and status are distributed by a couple different non-profits.

Winter wildlife closures extended for Roaring Fork, Eagle valleys

At the request of Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW), the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has extended winter closures for motorized and mechanized vehicles on specific lands in the

www.postindependent.com

BLM winter closures begin Dec. 1 in Eagle, Garfield, Pitkin counties | Bureau of Land Management

www.blm.gov

Nordic Ski, Snowhoe and Winter Trail Hikes in Eagle, Colorado

Winter is a magical time in Eagle! The amazingly light snow, coupled with our mild weather, makes for the perfect nordic or snowshoe adventure. Trail Maps

eagleoutside.com

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

In all fairness to the non consumptive users, I’m guessing their behavior largely born of ignorance. Heck, I consider myself a fairly educated conservationist and I wasn’t aware of those numbers. I’ve seen, and honor calving area closures, but had no idea human intrusion could result in that level of mortality. Is it then fair to expect the same of trail runners and mountain bikers?

Nameless hit this on the head. It is a hugely important consideration as communities develop recreational economies. In terms of multiple use, it must be considered per federal law. How do you find and enforce the seasonal closures that must be included and implemented?

I think this again points back to a PR type tax on non consumptive outdoor users. Tax everything, from snowshoes to mountain bikes to kayaks, because at the end of the day they ALL have an impact on our lands and the wildlife and the fish.

In our valley it's a known and persistent issue and a wide range of users have come together and identified areas that should be closed, but as Andree says in the article:

“Generally when you ask people to stay out of the area no matter what the reason is, 80-90% obey you,” Andree said. “But if you get 10% who don’t obey you, you haven’t done any good.”

The problem is a lot of people just don't care and there is no teeth in the regs.

Bill was interviewed on the meateater podcast, and goes into some depth about the issues in the valley.

https://www.themeateater.com/listen/meateater/ep-121-a-man-of-the-law

 

[onpoint]

In all fairness to the non consumptive users, I’m guessing their behavior largely born of ignorance. Heck, I consider myself a fairly educated conservationist and I wasn’t aware of those numbers. I’ve seen, and honor calving area closures, but had no idea human intrusion could result in that level of mortality. Is it then fair to expect the same of trail runners and mountain bikers?

Nameless hit this on the head. It is a hugely important consideration as communities develop recreational economies. In terms of multiple use, it must be considered per federal law. How do you find and enforce the seasonal closures that must be included and implemented?

I think this again points back to a PR type tax on non consumptive outdoor users. Tax everything, from snowshoes to mountain bikes to kayaks, because at the end of the day they ALL have an impact on our lands and the wildlife and the fish.

Once again, cannot be overstated. Not hunting/ungulates but a parallel issue.....

Case in Point: Montana's Madison River crowding issues, the Town of Ennis' MT economic structure, the general fishing public checking out, and MFWP asleep at the wheel.

Once it finally came to a point where MFWP decided something needed to be done to address the Madison's issues, the vast majority of the public had long left the river, the commercial interests - particularly the town of Ennis MT, it's business owners, guide/outfitters, and even local politicians - had become the loudest and most powerful voice. Their POCKETBOOK was/is tied to the issue.
As with all deals like this, if the economy is in play, the one's with a vested interest will likely show up - and in force.
Ennis IS in large part a recreational economy, and the long drawn out, ineffective process that is the Madison River Recreation Plan's problems are rooted (in addition to MFWPs' problems - a whole 'nuther thing) in the importance of guided angling to the local recreational economy.
The local public anglers haven't made a real impact on the process, even though they are a primary stakeholder. Snooze you lose.

The same will likely happen, no matter where at and what the issue/impact is, if the hunting public isn't proactive in these Western places of incredible population growth.

Some places it's most likely too late. Coming soon to a hunting area near you......................................................................................

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Case in Point: Montana's Madison River crowding issues, the Town of Ennis' MT economic structure, the general fishing public checking out, and MFWP asleep at the wheel.

The eagle river is having similar issues to the Madison. I used to duck hunt quite a bit on the river, but there are now dozens of trucks at every pullout seemingly 24/7, 365. I had my duck hunting screwed up both by people walking into my decoys and by the parking spots being all taken in the pull outs.

Why are people at the river fishing 30 min before shooting light in December... just boggles my mind.

 

[shoots-straight]

I often wondered if the hikers in the Northwestern part of the Bitterroot range were in some part responsible for the lack of Mountain Goats living there now. Mountain climbing, and general peak bogging is huge the closer one gets to Missoula.

 

[Ben Lamb]

There is a large body of science that shows elk, deer, etc avoid areas of heavy human activity. Yet we're always shocked when a new source of disturbance is unveiled, while simultaneously disregarding all of the other impacts that are reducing our hunting heritage.

There are far too many people on this planet to sustain the natural order. If you want to keep wildlife populations high, then you have to limit human activity, whether that's motorized use, developing natural resources or hiking.

Humans embody the ideology of a cancer cell - growth for the sake of growth (to steal the phrase from Ed Abbey).

At some point, we're going to be honest about the real issue here.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

There is a large body of science that shows elk, deer, etc avoid areas of heavy human activity. Yet we're always shocked when a new source of disturbance is unveiled, while simultaneously disregarding all of the other impacts that are reducing our hunting heritage.

There are far too many people on this planet to sustain the natural order. If you want to keep wildlife populations high, then you have to limit human activity, whether that's motorized use, developing natural resources or hiking.

Humans embody the ideology of a cancer cell - growth for the sake of growth (to steal the phrase from Ed Abbey).

At some point, we're going to be honest about the real issue here.

This then begs the question, what do we do? Families are getting smaller here but certainly not everywhere.

 

[onpoint]

"At some point, we're going to be honest about the real issue here".

A discussion of "the real" issue will go nowhere, led there inevitably by opinions regarding religion/politics/& other human problems, and eventually the "discussion" will meet it's inevitable end.
If the nice light polite discourse goes on, it can go on and on.
The real issue's a bitch...................

Lest we forget how, whiny, defensive, and contrary the congregation got when somebody dared suggest Little ol' Bozeman's too crowded.........

 

[Ben Lamb]

This then begs the question, what do we do? Families are getting smaller here but certainly not everywhere.

The two greatest ways to curb population growth are secondary education & well-paid employment. Those factors lead to fewer children being born. Beyond that, sex education for all, provide free contraceptives and stop demanding that we "go forth and multiply." That seems to be universal regardless of geographic location.

We may be past that though. Based on what's happening with climate, we could end up with events that do the reduction for us. It's not pretty nor is it humane, but it is what we have to work with in terms of nature taking it's course. When a species becomes too prevalent, disease comes in and corrects the situation.

 

[onpoint]

The two greatest ways to curb population growth are secondary education & well-paid employment. Those factors lead to fewer children being born. Beyond that, sex education for all, provide free contraceptives and stop demanding that we "go forth and multiply." That seems to be universal regardless of geographic location.

We may be past that though. Based on what's happening with climate, we could end up with events that do the reduction for us. It's not pretty nor is it humane, but it is what we have to work with in terms of nature taking it's course. When a species becomes too prevalent, disease comes in and corrects the situation.

AND - he went there...............................

 

[Ben Lamb]

AND - he went there...............................

Earth is finite. We either adapt to our living conditions, or we ruin the place we call home. Space force won't save us.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

The two greatest ways to curb population growth are secondary education & well-paid employment. Those factors lead to fewer children being born. Beyond that, sex education for all, provide free contraceptives and stop demanding that we "go forth and multiply." That seems to be universal regardless of geographic location.

We may be past that though. Based on what's happening with climate, we could end up with events that do the reduction for us. It's not pretty nor is it humane, but it is what we have to work with in terms of nature taking it's course. When a species becomes too prevalent, disease comes in and corrects the situation.

We need more trannys then. Cause a male who turns into girl cant procreate and a girl who turns into man wont procreate...so trannys will save the earth! Whodda thunk it! I'll be at the next parade with a rainbow tattooed on my ass!