Ollin Magnetic Digiscoping System

DSLR Cameras

Bowhuntrben

Bowhuntrben

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I am looking at possibly getting a DSLR camera. I do not know much about selecting a camera. I would like to be able to capture nice images of wildlife and certainly scenery as well. The primary reason for upgrading to this camera would be to allow for a telephoto lens for animals, though.

I am currently looking at the Canon T2i, T3i, or 60D.
For a lens, I am looking at the "Canon EF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 IS USM" and possibly getting a 2x teleconverter.

Does anybody have any experience with any of these or have any good general device on cameras/lenses? In particular, I do not know the difference in all of the lenses. For the cameras mentioned, is there a particular advantage to one over the other (or any other camera you might suggest) for what I would like to do? I'm sure the more expensive ones are better, but will the less expensive ones still do what I want them to?

I am looking at trying to keep the total cost to around $2000 or less (knowing that lenses can be quite expensive).

I am also open to Nikon if anybody has any recommendations with them.

Also, how far away could an animal be with the mentioned lens and still get it to look reasonably sized in the picture with or without the teleconverter?

Any examples of pictures taken to demonstrate the different cameras and/or distances to animals would be greatly appreciated!
 
Here are some pictures taken with the Canon T3i and kit lenses. The sagehen was around 40 yards, the cranes were 250ish, and the buck was around 100 after the twilight period. I could hardly see it with my bare eye but the camera allowed me to follow it. I was impressed with how they turned out given the lighting. This was my first weekend with the camera, I pretty much used it on auto like a point and shoot. The video capability and rotating lcd display is also a plus..I would consider myself a novice, I am sure there are other guys with a lot more information on here.

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=247701&highlight=Dainer
 
Here is what I learned after I bought my Nikon. When I bought mine it was a package deal with the body, 18-55mm and 55-200mm lenses.

Save yourself some heart ache and just buy the body and lenses separate. Get an 18-200mm lens so you are not switching all the time as this will be the main lens and you will use it for everything.

Then pick up and 400-600mm lens for long range shooting if you feel you need one.
 
I am not familiar much with Canon, however I do know quite a bit about Nikon. First and foremost, glass is much more important than the body. If you have to sink money into something, sink it into glass. Glass and a photographers eye takes the pictures, the camera just collects the data.

Teleconverters are ok, but the issue they cause is they decrease the light gathering significantly and subsequently shutter speed. They are also typically have a much inferior piece of glass when compared to high-end lenses, so clarity and sharpness can become an issue. Go with a 1.4x TC, not a 2X. Nikons 1.4 is great.

Nikon bodies are almost all very good. A few good choices are the D90 or the D80 is you can find a like new or refurbished model. Never be afraid to by refurbished Nikon cameras, everyone I have owned was bought this way with no issues.

As far as lenses, this is a whole different world. You can get lenses from $100 to $20000.00, the difference most times being lens quality much like binoculars and spotting scopes. It has everything to do with coatings and polishing.

These are the lenses I use and recommend.

50mm f1.8 (lightweight walk-around)
11-16 f2.8 (Tokina wide angle)
18-55mm f2.8 (general purpose)
70-200mm f2.8 (mid-range hunting lens)
300mm f4 (long-range still lens)
1.4x TC

These are all for the most part considered professional lenses. With the lower f# comes increased size, weight, and ultimately price. The glass though is tack sharp and clean. I also used quite extensively an 18-200mm VR from Nikon. A great walk around lens period. More of a pro-sumer lens, but a great lens nonetheless.

As far as distance per focal length, I can't give you a good judge as I never really looked into it. A 300mm lens will get you close, and adding a 1.4x TC, which I would HIGHLY recommend over the 2.0 as you only loose one stop, is your best bet. You still have to be close, and many times people think that a big lens means they can take pictures very far, that just isn't the case. I just get closer.

That being said, on a DSLR, a 300mm lens made for film cameras (most were/are) has a conversion factor in itself of about 1.5 due to sensor size difference between DSLR and film SLR, so a 300mm F4 NIkon AF-S is actually a 450mm plus a 1.4x zoom and you have about a 600. That will get you really close without having to spend upwards of 10k on one lens. If you stay away from DX Nikon lenses, this is the case on every lens. That is why they give away 35-70mm lenses with cameras, they just are not a good range for anything.

Here are my recommendations that would put you close to 2k.

Find a good refurbed D80- $419.00
http://www.adorama.com/INKD80R.html...ping Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=gbase

Look on Ebay and a Buy a used 300mm fixed f4 lens $900.00
Buy a 1.4x TC on eBay used $125.00
Buy a 50mm 1.8 for a walk around lens $100.00
Buy a 18-55mm lens, a cheap basic lens, but a great one for indoors and etc. $85.00
A remote Shutter release for self pictures $30.00 (must have)
Good SD high-speed 8GB memory cards
A decent tripod


You can get all of that for under 2k fairly easily. If you find some stuff on eBay, PM a link and I will check it out for you. Things to look for are heavy wear, extreme dust, and missing accessories.

Photography is an art, you can get great pictures easily with the perfect light and sun-height, but that is usually not the case. Learning to shoot in A priority mode and using exposure compensation are key. Use flash sometimes even in the sunlight and don't always center the subject, pictures can become dynamic when the real focal point of the picture is not dead center. Also, always shoot in the largest size possible and learn RAW if you can. It makes a world of difference and you can always make them smaller, but loose alot of detail when you shoot in a smaller format. Memory is cheap, but more if you fill cards up quickly.

I can go on and on, but I need to go pick up my son. I will dig up some PICS, but have had over 200 published in many various magazines with this setup.

Best of luck.
 
I just did a little looking at the RAW format. It seems that many cameras allow for shooting in a mode where it captures both a RAW file and a JPEG file. Is this true? Is there a disadvantage to this over shooting just JPEG or just RAW, other than space?
 
Absolutely shoot in both. The jpeg gives easy viewing and raw allows non-compression of the data, kind of like a negative of sorts.
 
I'd agree with MN Public Hunter. I bought the Nikon D5000 and love the camera and lens, however, swithching all the time is a pain. It was a good deal, however, one lens would be great.

Mtmiller & Monteman also have great recommendations. I like my Nikon wireless remote for taking pictures alone or at night when you must be steady.

NOTE: something that was NOT mentioned. Get an extra battery. You will need one when you least expect it.

good luck to all
the dog
 
Another option that goes along the better glass theory is to pick up a good used body and spend more money on the lenses. I picked up a T1i last year for a couple hundred bucks right after the 2i came out. If you can find a good used 1i or 2i body that will give you more left over for lens upgrades. I'm very happy with the picture quality that comes out of my T1i. I've had some enlargements done and they came out as good as my film ever did. I'm sure if I tried doing something billboard sized I would want a higher mp camera but for normal 48" hang on the wall stuff the T1i is perfect. I also shoot jpeg+RAW and with a 16 GB card it has plenty of room. Just something to think about.
 
Dslr

Alot of good information here. Great photos too.

First thing I would ask you is....what camera are you shooting now and what menus are you familiar with. The manufactures are all still in business because they make good products. The only two questions I consider when deciding a manufacture is 1. Am I familiar and comfortable with their stuff. and 2. its not if you're going to need customer support; it's when and how well does that manufacture do at helping you. Rememeber buying this camera is all about you. I would highly recommend buying it from a local camera shop too. It will be well worth the extra couple of percent you have to pay vs buying on-line to save a couple of dollars.

With that said I own a Cannon 60D and did alot of research on the Cannon lineup. My dad owns and operates a newspaper and has T3i's for some of his bang'em up field cameras. (lightweight and excellent camera)

I spent alot of time comparing the two models listed. Accross the board VERY similar.
but a few things to consider.

- 2.5x more shots per battery charge on the 60D

- Camera weight...a hard one for me when making my decision. (hunting and lightweight go hand and hand) but I took weight to get the other things listed. 60D - 755g vs. T3i - 570g

- T3i has a little more shutter lag. Not important to some, but I was interested.

- Shutter life. Can't remember exact and couldn't find my notes, but I think it was 30,000 shots for T3i to 100,000 shots for the 60D. We all know this is realitive it could go in 20 shots or 120,000, but something to consider. 3x the shutter life meant alot to me.



These are just a few reasons/concerns I had when making my decision....too each his own!

Can't go wrong either way.

Good Luck.

LB
 
pointingdogsrule said:
I like my Nikon wireless remote for taking pictures alone or at night when you must be steady.

NOTE: something that was NOT mentioned. Get an extra battery. You will need one when you least expect it.

good luck to all
the dog
Click to expand...
Great advice, get either the Nikon or Canon with a remote & the extra battery, batteries hate cold so a backup is really a good idea.. I try to keep an extra memory card with my stuff as well. Although rare, if your memory card goes bad, you're done, so just keep a backup card handy. Then go out and get very familiar with the camera, so when a great shot presents itself you don't miss the chance trying to get everything ready.
 
I love the pictures where you guys had animals that were moving quickly and they turn out crystal clear without blur!
I am kind of hesitant about buying online, at least something like this. I will probably end up going over budget and buy at a local store. Not that you can't get good stuff online...I just don't want to get stuck in a situation where somebody doesn't tell the whole truth about what I am buying and I end up not happy. I'm sure the camera will likely last me many many many years, so it is probably worth spending the extra money and making sure I get what I want. I will probably end up getting it piece by piece so I don't have to unload so much money at once.
 
Here are a few places if you decide to order from an online store http://allenscamera.com/, http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ ,http://www.adorama.com/ . They do have used equipment if you decide to go that route. You can find tons of info here http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Guides/dslr_buying_guide_01.htm.
You can't go wrong with either brand, cannon or nikon. I chose nikon for the simple reason I new I wanted the nikon 14-24mm f/2.8 lens. I chose the d700 body for the full frame sensor. The last web link (above) has good info on sensor size.
To understand a little about the lenses, the "F" number on the lens indcates the aperture. The aperture is the hole or the opening in the lens through which light travels. The smaller the F number the larger the hole and the larger the f number the smaller the hole.

To be able to freeze the actoin of the moving subject without blur you need a fast shutter speed. To obtain fast shutter speed you need a large aperture(small f number= large hole= more light)

The above lens you mentioned, 70-300 f/4-5.6 is F/5.6 @ 300mm. With the 2x converter you lose 2 stops(f numbers), it would put you at F/11 @ 600mm. You would probably do okay on sunny days. In early morning or late evening or cloudy days you will strugle to keep you shutter speed fast enough to freeze action on moving subjects. High end lenses will usally cost more but will have a smaller F number. Consumer grade lenses are usually somewhat slower on focus.
The above links have lens rentals. If you find a body rent a lens (very reasonably priced) and try it before dishing out the money for something you want be satisfied with. As mentioned you still have to be fairly close to the subject even with the larger lens.
I will have a nikon tc-20e III (2x) converter due in tomarrow. It will be used on a nikon 70-200 f/2.8 vrII. In a few days I will show you sample pictures of different focal lengths with subject at a certain distance.
(Focal length is the mm on the lens) This will give you an idea of how much the lens brings in the subject.

As soon as the Harley sales, I will give you sample pics from a 500mm f/4.

Good luck on your research.
 
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I've been doing a bit more looking at the different cameras. I still haven't narrowed down my list too much (same size but different cameras!). I am now considering the Nikon d90 or d7000 or Canon 60d. From some of the reviews of the Nikon D7000, it seems that it has an issue with overexposure on sunny days. Have you guys had this issue with the D90? For the Nikons, I am kind of leaning towards the D90 because of the issue mentioned. Also, the extra few hundred dollars could then be put towards a lens. I notice that the D7000 and Canon 60D have a faster shutter speed. Considering I am not doing professional photography and just want to be able to take good wildlife shots for my own use, would someone of my capabilities even notice a difference? Also, how does the D90 perform in lower light situations which I would expect to be trying to take pictures in?
Thanks again for all the help guys! I appreciate all of the help you have already given me!
 
I have done a fair bit of research and am probably in about the same boat as you. I think MT Miller is about where we are too...semi-serious enthusiasts.

My wife bought the T2i with the kit lenses.. it takes great pics! As far as low light goes, you are "basically" talking lenses there. I'm sure the 60D does something better with low light than a T2i/3i, with the same lens, but its got to be negligible for a guy like us. If I had 2k to spend, I'd buy a 2i or 3i body and then spend the extra $1500 on an awesome lens... like the canon 100-400 4.5-5.6. Its $1500. You'd still want to get a smaller lens for day to day family stuff and such. Another must have lens for the Canon is a Nifty Fifty... its a 50mm fixed lens with a 1.8 aperature...incredible low light lens. Hunnert bucks... cant beat it for the money. So, maybe at $2100 dollars you are set! I bet you could call B&H and tell them I have 2k cash I'll send you if you send me those three products and they'd get you close.
 
You could also buy a short zoom, which is a little more versatile than the nifty fifty... for like a hunnert bucks... lower quality, but will still give good shots in decent light conditions. Something like the 18-55.

I need to sell some old gear and stash some money away to get this done!
 
When you are considering an interchangeable lens camera, you need to think about the future. If you decide to change brands, you will need to buy both camera bodies and lenses, so it's best to pick a brand that you can stay with for many years. I shot Canon for a long time, but in 2005, I switched to Olympus and had to plunk down a fair amount of money for camera and lenses. I switched because Olympus was one of the first camera makers to put an ultrasonic sensor cleaning system in their cameras. I had over 10,000 shots on my Canon 10D body when I switched to an Olympus E-1. I still have my Canons and lenses, but seldom use them anymore. I used to use them as backup cameras, but now have enough Olympus bodies that I don't need to carry them anymore. The last camera that I bought was an Olympus Pen E-P3, largely because it will also shoot HD video as well.The Pen is not a DSLR, but an EVIL (Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens) camera.Since it doesn't have the mirror, it is considerably smaller than a DSLR. I have an adapter that will allow me to use my other Olympus lenses with the Pen, but it uses its own smaller lenses, as well. I still prefer my DSLRs for most still photos, but I will probably use the Pen for a travel camera. The Pen is significantly different from the E series cameras that it forces me to relearn how to operate it.

Canon, Nikon and Olympus cameras are all good cameras. The only good way to decide what you like best is to use them. I have bought a couple of Olympus E-1 bodies on eBay as well as some inexpensive Olympus lenses to set up as travel cameras. You can get some pretty good deals if you are careful, but not so much on the high end lenses. Good lenses hold their value. I won't buy aftermarket lenses, if I can help it. My experiences with Sigma and Tamron have not been good. I do have a Tokina lens that was my primary lens on the 10D that I have never had a problem with. The OEM lenses seem to be more durable than the aftermarket lenses. I slipped on some ice with my 10D and a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 lens. I landed on my back and pulled the camera to my belly. The camera survived unscathed, but the lens was junk. I sent it in to Sigma and they said that it was unrepairable. If you want to use a camera in the wilderness, a rugged camera is a must.

You can't have too many batteries. I prefer to carry at least three.
 
Might be a little late here - but some random thoughts / comments;

I am of the Canon world, but Canon / Nikon are like Fords / Chevy's, either will do you a great job (well...not sure about Ford Lol;)).

I believe a key consideration with either is find a body that gets the job done (do you really need all those bells and whistles of whatever the latest model is?) – money invested in the body will depreciate, money invested in good glass (IE – Canon L Glass) will also depreciate, but at a much lower rate. You will always be able to get all or most of your money out of most good glass as long as you take care of it (talking Canon “L” glass here).

Body. I personally still shoot a 50d now and it does everything I could want and then some. I progressed from several PS’s, Digital Rebel, 20d, 30d, to this. There are some great deals to be had on 50ds used (example http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1141370&highlight=50d )or refurb if you don’t need the video or flipout screen of the 60d (I don’t personally). May consider saving some $$ on the body and put towards good glass.

If you are thinking Canon – check out the POTN forums (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/). Read , read, read, ask questions. An awesome info resource for Canon Photog’s – lots of pro’s willing to share. Also great classified section for used gear (you will have to login to see it). I have bought and sold quite a bit of gear on there over the years with great results and some great deals. Still buyer beware like buying anything on the web, but a lot of helpful good people on there.

New equipment – any brand – B&H is tough to beat. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

Glass. You are considering the Canon EF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 IS USM. Keep in mind when we see the most wildlife – low light. That lens will be a pooch in low light, period. The IS helps, but you really want a faster lens. Put a 1.4 or 2x converter on, it will be a real dog in anything but the best light. Actually I may be mistaken but not sure the Canon converters will even work on that lens (off brand may). As previously mentioned, with the 2x you will loose 2 stops, with the 1.4, 1 stop. Alternate suggestion would be to consider the 70-200L 2.8. On the high end – the top of the line would be the new MkII IS lens ($2k new), you can find the original 70-200L 2.8 IS out there for less, or, if you are trying get by for as little $$ as possible – the old 70-200L 2.8 (non IS) is a great lens lens. You can still buy them new for $1200ish at B&H, or used in the $800-$900 range. This lens with a monopod or tripod, and the 1.4x converter will do you good job. This is what I have used with great results for a couple years now (I shoot a lot of sports). I had the 70-200 f4 before I got the 2.8 – nice lens but amazing how much the one more stop of the 2.8 help in low light. For more reach – there’s the Canon 100-400L, always figured for the AK trip someday, I would rent that. Camera glass is just like scopes, binocs, etc – you get what you pay for.

All the Canon L len’s are great glass, and priced accordingly. There are other options that will do almost as good in some cases, for less money. Other lens’s I use with great results after much experimentation and comparison:
Walk around on cameras lens – Tamron 28-75 f2.8 XR DI
Wide lens – Tokina 12-24 f4 SD DX
Converter – Canon 1.4x
Spare batteries – Sterling Tek – work great and less $$ than OE
Case backpack – Tamrac Expedition 4 (hauls all the above and more safe & secure)
Monopod / Tripod – Manfrotto is good stuff

Hope that helps some. Any questions yell. I can link you to a ton of sports images in interested. Good luck!
 
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