CWD news

[Hunting Wife]

IMHO the only way to come up with a percentage like she did would be to attach tracking collars to hundreds of deer that actually are CWD positive and then if they die to follow up as to the reason. There is no way that can be done just from the monetary standpoint alone, as well as the fact that a deer has to die before CWD can even be identified.

Um, that's what she did. And there are antemortem tests - that's how she did it. The 19 percent figure is an oversimplified number that she fully acknowledged is complicated by numerous factors. Nothing super groundbreaking, but seemed like a pretty straightforward project to me.

 

[El Jason]

Topgun is trying to apply the results of a study conducted on the Southern Converse County Mule deer herd in Wyoming to mule deer herds in Colorado and whitetail herds in Michigan. He is discounting the results of the study because deer herds in Colorado have not disappeared in the time CWD has been known to exist in those herds. He is ignoring the fact that the author of the study has identified genotypes that are less susceptible to CWD rather than asking himself if that could be why deer herds affected by CWD in other areas have not declined as precipitously. He has not presented evidence that the environmental conditions in places like Colorado are similar to the study area, and therefore the infection rates should be similar. There are a host of reasons not mentioned in the article and my post that could cause the differences. But rather than do a little more research, Topgun has chosen to discount the results of the study.

She may have defended her thesis, but Topgun wasn't on her advisory committee

 

[Corax]

What caught my eye was the difference in susceptibility between genetically different animals. Basically, over time the genetically susceptible animals will die off and the resistant ones will survive, resulting in a resistant population. Since the resistant ones seem to be a small fraction of the current population, the overall population will drop as this occurs.

 

[BuzzH]

IMHO putting up the same statement like he did to me TWICE, rather than just explaining to us what he meant was condescending, if not being a wiseacre which was the word I used. Sorry you don't agree with that synopsis! To answer your question; yes, I read the entire link and know that she had various qualifications to her statement, but the emphasis on the article seems to be that 19% figure. Even though it appears to be high based on her qualified statements, the article appears to me to try and accentuate that 19% figure. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time, but having hunted in Wyoming for over 20 years and living in an area here in MI close to where CWD has been found I'm probably up on the disease more than most people.

How much time have you spent in Converse County and Laramie Peak hunting or observing deer?

Probably not more than a couple hours on your CDROM.

I don't doubt that 19% figure at all...the population crashed by almost 7K deer in 10 years give or take. That's significant, and there's a reason why there are 7K less deer there.

Plus, its mentioned right in the article that lions are killing more deer than CWD, but again, if you READ the article, it sounds to me like CWD infection rates, could be why lions are hammering them so hard. The lions in that area are also being hunted pretty hard, so its not like theres a lion behind every piece of sage brush.

Plus, a 19% decline doesn't mean in 5 years that you're left with only a few animals. A lot of these declines happen very fast, sort of hit rock bottom, then the decline slows or the populations stay flat. This happens for lots of reasons including things like deer densities decreasing, which decreases exposure rates to CWD, less prey less predators, and the list goes on and on.

Like any research, it often leads to more questions and more research.

But, to basically come on a board and hammer the research and researcher because you have a cdrom and have been hunting a completely different part of WY, for a couple weeks a year, over the last 20 years is ridiculous...and reckless.

Sorry, but I don't put much faith in your "research" or opinion.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Sorry I just didn't properly say what I meant in part of my post that makes it appear that I'm not in agreement with her study. Yes, CWD is a killer, but it takes a number of years to decimate a herd if it even does, unlike EHD that can do the same in just a matter of a few weeks! 19% is nothing compared to the percentage of animals EHD can take in a very short period of time, but the number CWD takes is high in some areas and lower in others for the exact reasons the lady mentioned in her thesis. No BuzzH, I haven't spent any time in the area where her study was done, but I've done enough reading on CWD that I also don't need more of your condescending BS about where I live, my CD ROM usage, or that I don't live in Wyoming in order to know things.

 

[BuzzH]

Now EHD and CWD are being compared....WOW! You're comparing apples and aardvarks...

"top"gun, when you find yourself in a hole...quit digging.

 

[El Jason]

Sorry I just didn't properly say what I meant in part of my post that makes it appear that I'm not in agreement with her study. Yes, CWD is a killer, but it takes a number of years to decimate a herd if it even does, unlike EHD that can do the same in just a matter of a few weeks! 19% is nothing compared to the percentage of animals EHD can take in a very short period of time, but the number CWD takes is high in some areas and lower in others for the exact reasons the lady mentioned in her thesis. No BuzzH, I haven't spent any time in the area where her study was done, but I've done enough reading on CWD that I also don't need more of your condescending BS about where I live, my CD ROM usage, or that I don't live in Wyoming in order to know things.

To try and compare CWD and EHD is simply ridiculous. CWD is a chronic disease, whereas EHD is an acute disease that flourishes under specific conditions and circumstances. EHD, as you correctly noted, takes a tremendous toll on the population over a short duration, but then there is likely a period of respite that may be anywhere from 1-10 years.

CWD on the other hand, is always there. It is always infecting animals and as the study shows, significantly increases their mortality. There is no respite from CWD. There is no population rebound because it is never biologically dormant the way that EHD is at times.

 

[belly-deep]

Top Goon,

EHD is not contagious. Big difference.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I know all about EHD and it's cause Mr B-D! Guys, I wasn't trying to compare the two diseases, but rather just trying to mention how deadly and fast EHD is and will knock a herd down to almost nothing in a week or two. I guess the one thing that can be compared when talking about the two is that neither one is able to be controlled and as far as CWD is concerned even after 50 years of study the scientific community doesn't seem to be any closer now to a solution than when it was identified in CO back in 1967..

 

[EBOLAVIRS]

Maybe Lucky will save the day....we can hope.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Nothing to ignore, it is just something that is not new news and also something that many feel cannot be stopped. Until it is proven to be fatal to humans I am not getting too concerned about it.

You may want to get concerned , WG&F has issued a warning that any animal that tests positive for CWD not be consumed. That concerned me.

 

[schmalts]

You may want to get concerned , WG&F has issued a warning that any animal that tests positive for CWD not be consumed. That concerned me.

They said the same for Wisconsin many years ago. Chit hit the fan, hunting numbers dropped sharply the year after they made that statement. Of course no one should eat a deer testing positive but fact remains that after CDW was found and millions of deer killed by hunters it still has not blown up again as the end of the deer and deer hunting. Not saying it won't happen but so far way more people die from eating beef and chicken that was not handled properly at the store, and you know that deer with CDW have been consumed when you see that Wisconsin has killed millions of deer since CDW was found and the testing they used to do had all but stopped.

 

[JohnCushman]

Maybe they need a shoulder season on possibly infected deer to get them out of the area...? *end sarcasm*

 

[Gellar]

Depressing, yet a glimmer of hope. WI has totally abandoned their efforts w CWD. Within 5-10 yrs the disease will jump the border into MN.

CWD was found in a single wild hunter harvested deer around Pine Island in 2010. The mn dnr has done extensive testing since and have not found another. With the finding of cwd in Allamakee County iowa in 2013 the mn dnr has been testing in September Mn but have no positives. They already have there response in place for when it is detected.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/deer/cwd/index.html

 

[Hunting Wife]

Not saying it won't happen but so far way more people die from eating beef and chicken that was not handled properly at the store, and you know that deer with CDW have been consumed when you see that Wisconsin has killed millions of deer since CDW was found and the testing they used to do had all but stopped.

You are correct that no human cases have been conclusively identified but you are making a comparison here between acute and chronic diseases (same idea as the comparison of EHD and CWD earlier in the thread). E. coli and other common food-borne pathogens cause illness in very short order. The human variant of prion disease takes decades to manifest itself. That is why it is so difficult for researchers to figure out whether CWD will cause human disease. When we experimentally expose a variety of other mammal groups to CWD, they develop a similar prion disease so all you can do is extrapolate that to people, since it is clearly impossible to do an experimental dosing study on humans. Our only other point of reference is Mad Cow disease, which does cause human disease. So the best educated guess is that human infection with CWD is possible.

So what does that mean? The main concern with CWD and human health is not that suddenly hunters are going to start dropping dead immediately after consuming a CWD infected critter. I think a lot of epidemiologists would also tell you they aren't all that concerned about "mature" hunters being exposed because they would likely die from other causes before vCJD (the human version) ever killed them. The main worry is what might happen to young people who consume infected tissue repeatedly at a young age, and have many years over which the disease can develop. Nobody knows, but out of an abundance of caution, health officials have made those recommendations about not eating infected animals.

 

[schmalts]

You are correct that no human cases have been conclusively identified but you are making a comparison here between acute and chronic diseases (same idea as the comparison of EHD and CWD earlier in the thread). E. coli and other common food-borne pathogens cause illness in very short order. The human variant of prion disease takes decades to manifest itself. That is why it is so difficult for researchers to figure out whether CWD will cause human disease. When we experimentally expose a variety of other mammal groups to CWD, they develop a similar prion disease so all you can do is extrapolate that to people, since it is clearly impossible to do an experimental dosing study on humans. Our only other point of reference is Mad Cow disease, which does cause human disease. So the best educated guess is that human infection with CWD is possible.

So what does that mean? The main concern with CWD and human health is not that suddenly hunters are going to start dropping dead immediately after consuming a CWD infected critter. I think a lot of epidemiologists would also tell you they aren't all that concerned about "mature" hunters being exposed because they would likely die from other causes before vCJD (the human version) ever killed them. The main worry is what might happen to young people who consume infected tissue repeatedly at a young age, and have many years over which the disease can develop. Nobody knows, but out of an abundance of caution, health officials have made those recommendations about not eating infected animals.

Maybe this is why my memory is failing. joking but it's a possibility. What were we talking about?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

"I think a lot of epidemiologists would also tell you they aren't all that concerned about "mature" hunters being exposed because they would likely die from other causes before vCJD (the human version) ever killed them."

I'm definitely one of those "mature" hunters you're talking about and that's why I guess the matter doesn't bother me much like it does some since I'll be gone long before it will get me, LOL!

 

[Oak]

If my memory is correct...here in Colo CWD only infested around 4% of the deer in the hottest CWD locations. In Wyo it sounds like it may be closer to 14%? According to the study: "Infected adult mule deer had only a 32 percent annual survival rate. Uninfected deer survived at a rate of 76 percent annually."

If there were 100 deer in a hotspot area 4 could potentially have CWD here in Colo. That means over 1 of the 4 CWD deer would survive. I can't see how a deer population is going to be eliminated with only 3 dead deer out of 100 dieing from CWD in the worse hotspot areas in Colorado? Maybe I'm missing something?

I spent a while on the phone yesterday with the statewide big game manager with CPW. He said the current hot spot in Colorado is actually near Meeker (remember the Motherwell Ranch?). Last year the infection rate of tested deer was 20%, with only about 50 samples. This year (with the results that are in so far) the infection rate is 18%, with about 100 samples. One rancher on the Williams Fork has had 3 of his last 5 bucks test positive.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm definitely one of those "mature" hunters you're talking about and that's why I guess the matter doesn't bother me much like it does some since I'll be gone long before it will get me, LOL!

I'm a lot more concerned about the ramifications it can have on mule deer, elk, moose and the future of hunting than I am about it jumping to humans.

Its much easier to brush this issue off when you only think of yourself, and care nothing about future generations of game and hunters.

CWD, and the research going on, should be on our radar, at the very least.

 

[Mudranger1]

You may want to get concerned , WG&F has issued a warning that any animal that tests positive for CWD not be consumed. That concerned me.

I kind of agree with Schmalts on this.. not exactly but close to 50% of Colorado hunting units are listed as having positive test for CWD and last I check they were filled to the brim with people killing animals (well filled to the brim with people some killing animals)