Crossbows During Archery- for a select few

This is another political shakedown by Molnar. Sadly, I think the present Montana Fish and Wildlife Commission will embrace this enthusiastically even after all the crossbow legislative defeats this past session. It very well may be a coordinated effort.
 
Jason73 said:
You can give your opinion without sounding like an asshole. It's not that difficult.
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I'm looking for justifying modern compound use and their claim on the "high moral" ground on what exactly is, and is not "archery"?

Lets not forget that the INTENT of archery seasons was not to make it easy, as in, not being able to shoot at 60,80, 100+ yards with a compound. It was to give those dedicated to limiting technology a season because they were shooting fingers, stick bows, etc. and intentionally putting themselves at a disadvantage.

Those guys, that created the archery seasons, got shoved right the hell out of the way and completely steam rolled by technology advances in compounds. Nobody gave them a second thought as the technology made it easier and easier. The differences between compounds and stick bows is a much bigger leap, than the leap between modern compound and crossbows.

That's EXACTLY why crossbows are being adopted across the country, and why there is no real argument that crossbows are any more effective than a modern compound.

Those are the facts, sorry if you don't like them.
 
The % of success where I live is probably about 7 with a compound. Sure, if you use a traditional bow you are the truest form of an archery hunter. Regardless, shooting elk with a modern compound is far from a given and personally I wouldn't ever try killing an elk at 60 yards with my compound. I've seen it tried and failed and wondered at that decision making. On the other side I've seen a guy shoot an elk, quartered away, at 70 yards put a bolt through 4 ft of an elks body and fly another 20- 30 yards. The elk went about 60 yards and tipped over. I've seen precision to 100 yards with a crossbow that would definitely kill an elk. I'd be challenged to shoot my Smith and Wesson with a slug that far. You don't have let off, wrist torque, the wind isn't as large a factor, they shoot at 450+ ft per second. It's not even close.
 
I agree that compounds, once they exceeded that 40-50 yard extreme max (for the majority), it's close to the same except...
Scope versus pins and the simplicity of pulling a trigger with a device that can stay in that self sustained ready position.

Those two characteristics really separate the two devices.

I 100% support disabled use though I believe that's already written into our regs(?).
Problem will always be abuse that chops the tree versus dealing with the bad apples. Life spoken for most every event nowadays.
 
BWALKER77 said:
I'd like to see the wounding season aka archery curtailed greatly.
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Wounding season is only during archery season? What about all those damn gut shot critters with lead and copper bullets. Seems there are more hunters out with a rifle? Wounding happens both ways.
 
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golfer said:
Wounding season is only during archery season? What about all those damn guy shot critters with lead and copper bullets. Seems there are more hunters out with a rifle? Wounding happens both ways.
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While it does happen both ways, archery hunters wound much more as a percentage. One study I saw suggested 50% of the elk shot with a bow are never recovered. If I had a dollar for every time I heard archery guy say "I hit one" that latter didn't find it I could probably buy a nice rifle.
At one time archery was about highly skilled hunters challenging themselves with primitive equipment. It's grown into the general public getting into it because of advantageously timed seasons, less pressure, easier access to prime units, etc. It's a crock and needs to change.
 
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EKYHunter said:
Disclaimer: I do not own or hunt with a crossbow. So I’m guessing that most folks don’t want crossbows allowed during regular bow season? Why is that? Don’t like them, think their to easy to use, not ethical? Just curious guys.
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Montana currently has a 6 month elk season. You can use a crossbow for 4.75 of those months
 
First, Brad Molnar has been a professional jerk for as long as he has put his hat into the public arena.

But the bigger problem is with how "archery" has evolved. When the special seasons were first established, archery could be compared pretty well to falconry. Each were very difficult endeavors and required a serious commitment to have even a remote chance of success. You could even call them a bit eccentric.

Compound bows changed all of that. How anyone could call a compound bow "primitive" is beyond me. Forty years ago, I messed around with a compound bow. I shot it two or three evenings a week at a public range. Within a few weeks, I could shoot tight groups to 40 yards. That is were my last pin was sighted. I'm sure the groups would have tightened some more if I had used a mechanical release.

Now the bows, arrows,broadheads are far beyond the what I used. How many people leave their rangefinder at home when they archery hunt? That used to be one of the biggest skills a person needed to attain. It was common to either shoot over or under because the range had been misjudged.

Modern archery hunters get a larger share of the hunting opportunity than they deserve.
 
BuzzH said:
I'm looking for justifying modern compound use and their claim on the "high moral" ground on what exactly is, and is not "archery"?

Lets not forget that the INTENT of archery seasons was not to make it easy, as in, not being able to shoot at 60,80, 100+ yards with a compound. It was to give those dedicated to limiting technology a season because they were shooting fingers, stick bows, etc. and intentionally putting themselves at a disadvantage.

Those guys, that created the archery seasons, got shoved right the hell out of the way and completely steam rolled by technology advances in compounds. Nobody gave them a second thought as the technology made it easier and easier. The differences between compounds and stick bows is a much bigger leap, than the leap between modern compound and crossbows.

That's EXACTLY why crossbows are being adopted across the country, and why there is no real argument that crossbows are any more effective than a modern compound.

Those are the facts, sorry if you don't like them.
Click to expand...
First I don’t believe in high moral ground when it comes to hunting methods , kill cleanly as possible and live with in games laws of your state ! I also don’t believe anyone is pushed out by modern technology, I hunt how I want and let others have the same right as I have.

I find your statement to be flawed that the difference in leap from stick bow and compound verses compound to crossbow! Fred Bear took and hit shots at 80 yards and also at running game with his traditional bow. Yes the compound has greater ease and capability but there are these similarities . First you must draw and do it without being seen or heard by your quarry at very close range. This puts compounds at a noise and sight disadvantage because of drawing techniques . So not all is advantage compound bow. Even with let off weight , Faster arrow speeds and longer poi , you still have to master stealth in draw.

Crossbows are much easier to master , it’s a shoulder fired weapons that can be fitted with all kinds of modern optics Even night vision optics ! There is a very high increase in deer in Maryland ( my state ) killed by crossbow than were killed by the archery season before they became legal. In fairness to the facts compounds increase the deer kill numbers as well however higher deer populations the DNR putting its focus on deer herd growth made this number rise rise with the availability of crossbows. The biggest advantage that crossbows have is hunters are extending there years in the field because there is less physical demands in using crossbows. in my opinion if you take off the optics that give a half hour usable light and @#)(# the crossbow only when the animal is in range then we have a more reasonable argument. As it it used in the field today , the crossbow as a huge advantage over the bow ….. any bow!

If it’s legal in your state then I have no complaint over you or anyone else taking advantage . I think if it were up to me ( it isn’t ) there would be a shorter portion of the archery season that they would be legal to use. Then again that’s just my opinion .
 
BuzzH said:
I'm looking for justifying modern compound use and their claim on the "high moral" ground on what exactly is, and is not "archery"?

Lets not forget that the INTENT of archery seasons was not to make it easy, as in, not being able to shoot at 60,80, 100+ yards with a compound. It was to give those dedicated to limiting technology a season because they were shooting fingers, stick bows, etc. and intentionally putting themselves at a disadvantage.

Those guys, that created the archery seasons, got shoved right the hell out of the way and completely steam rolled by technology advances in compounds. Nobody gave them a second thought as the technology made it easier and easier. The differences between compounds and stick bows is a much bigger leap, than the leap between modern compound and crossbows.

That's EXACTLY why crossbows are being adopted across the country, and why there is no real argument that crossbows are any more effective than a modern compound.

Those are the facts, sorry if you don't like them.
Click to expand...
But there's a technology line somewhere right?

We allow some technology but not all.

Laser guided missiles for rifle? No
Crossbows for archery? No

If you wanted to argue that we've already pushed that tech line too far with archery, I could support that. Cams? No. That's a legit argument. So is drawing that line between 0% hold and >0% hold.

I cannot shoot a compound more than 60 yards and even that is a stretch. But I can damn sure can @#)(# a crossbow, carry it all day, then shoot very accurately at 90 yards 6 hrs later. That's across my technology line.
 
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