Crossbow ethics and rules

[brnsvllyjohn]

I thought I would start a discussion here rather than on the archery forum since some do not consider a crossbow archery equipment.
This is obviously just my opinion and I know most of you will disagree. I live in California and I am a hunter so I am used to the majority of the people around me disagreeing with my opinions.
I don't think that saying crossbows are unfair or in some way cheating is a useful discussion. Some states allow them and some states don't. California only allows those that have a disability that prevents them from drawing a bow to utilize a crossbow in archery season. Some other western states have similar rules. Most archery hunters assume that the crossbows are just too deadly at long range to be archery equipment. That is not true with any crossbow I have ever handled. All of my friends with compound bows can shoot at long ranges far better than I can with my crossbow. But lets just say that there are crossbows that can shoot accurately further than is fair. Then we should have limitations an the crossbows. We have regulations on rifles, on black powder and on regular bows. Things that put maximum and minimums on the weapons. I would have no problem with placing limitations on crossbows and honestly we need to. Crossbows that shoot over 400 fps should not be allowed. Scopes could become illegal. They already are in a lot of areas. I think a logical discussion about regulating the power and range of crossbows makes sense just like not allowing 50 cal. guns to be used for hunting.
Now as far as using one for a hunter that is not capable of shooting a conventional bow eliminating that possibility eliminates a lot of older hunters. Saying that you can learn to draw your bow with your teeth or you might try another surgery just isn't going to happen or be successful for most of us. You are then saying sorry you can no longer play the game. At the same time many hunters are trying to get the next generation involved in hunting. Who better than granddad to do that?? If granddad cannot go hunting and actually participate he might not go. We will only go along as a spectator a limited amount.
I have been arguing with Idaho about the requirement for a disabled archer permit in Idaho. Their application states I have to have lost the use of one arm but be able to draw and fire the crossbow unassisted. Not sure how to do that yet so I do not have a permit for Idaho. I cannot draw a bow but I can use my arm. My doctor is the one who told me 10 years ago to never ever try archery again. My 40 year old son wants to archery hunt Idaho badly and I will go and be camp boy but only one time.
I had an older brother who recently applied for and received his permit come to my house to shoot my crossbow over the weekend. He was only able to load it about 5 times with the string cocker. I then showed him my winch system to draw my crossbow. He thought I was kidding. No when you cannot draw your crossbow you have to use the winch. He may change his mind and not utilize his permit.

So I know some of you will still feel that I should not archery hunt but I will as long as I can legally participate.

 

[Huntkook]

Hunting is hunting as long as you do it ethically. Alot of flintlock hunters don't feel that inlines are fair compound bow hunters don't like crossbows, traditional bow hunters don't like compounds. It goes on and on. If you're hunting fair chase and doing it ethically than it's still hunting.

 

[Huntkook]

You'd be surprised what people think go into the archery forum there's a thread there called crossbow ouch.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Hunting is hunting as long as you do it ethically. Alot of flintlock hunters don't feel that inlines are fair compound bow hunters don't like crossbows, traditional bow hunters don't like compounds. It goes on and on. If you're hunting fair chase and doing it ethically than it's still hunting.

Exactly Huntkook, Infighting amongst ourselves is something to be avoided. This is what the anti-hunters want to further their ultimate goal of eliminating hunting completely.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Crossbows certainly have their place, but I think there are valid concerns about their widespread use during archery seasons. There are many areas where bows, muzzleloaders, shotguns, and crossbows are utilized because there are genuine safety concerns with using rifles, and game populations are above carrying capacity and need to be managed. There are also a number of areas where whitetail populations are so large that to control numbers game managers need to cull as many deer as possible and crossbows provide a means of getting more hunters in the field. There are a lot of guys that don't have the time needed to be proficient with a vertical bow and a crossbow is a great option.

The issue with crossbows, and the reason I think there is so much animosity on some threads towards them, is that in the words of Leopold they improve "the pump, rather than the well". Crossbows, specifically because you don't have to draw them and because they don't require as much practice increase individual success rates and opens up archery season to a larger group of people who don't have the time to devote to learning how to shoot a bow. If crossbows are to be allowed in archery seasons we would need to decrease tag numbers and would have to change OTC archery seasons to draw because there would be a large pool of people who could participate. Because many western states have decided not to amend there laws and rework their game management systems to take crossbows into account, your average archer is understandably against them because someone using one while everyone else has a bow has a leg up on the competition.

Most if not everyone I have discussed this issue with is perfectly happy to allow disabled individuals the use of a crossbow, because it simply evens the playing field and doesn't give that person a leg up, their use of a crossbow doesn't disturb the calculus of hunt.

I sure it is incredibly frustrating that Idaho is being so rigid in the enforcement of their rules, I don't know all the facts of your specific case but it sounds like you have a strong argument for a tag. That being said, if you like archery hunting and want to go with your son why not go during rifle season, or hunt Wyoming, or try to get a disabled permit in Colorado. My brother-in-law is a die hard archer and picks the bow when a rifle is allowed, Idaho doesn't even have a archery bear season so if you wanted to hunt bears you would be picking your weapon anyway.

I'm just trying to say don't let some rule nazi keep you from getting out there with your son.

 

[brnsvllyjohn]

We do hunt Idaho with rifles. My son is also planning to hunt Idaho with his bow. I was just trying to go on that hunt with him. As of now I will go. I will go early and set up camp and scout. I can stay way longer since I am retired. I can also fish while I am there, I was just hoping to hunt. Doesn't look like I will be able to hunt but I plan on enjoying the trip anyway.
That younger group of hunters (40 year olds) like it when I go. I have the best RV and the best quad. They don't mind taking advantage of those. LOL Of course they help me pack animals when I manage to get one so it all works out.

 

[netman]

We had those disability type laws here in Indiana for many years. Now crossbows are considered archery gear and your good to go hunting with a crossbow during archery season. I am perfectly fine with that. I hunt with a recurve, compound and a PSE Tac 15 crossbow. I have killed a doe at 89 yards with my crossbow. I say that not bragging or boasting. I eat deer and some years I did not have the time to shoot my bows regularly and would use my crossbow when I was able to squeeze in a evening hunt.
I’m 54 years old and can remember when climbing tree stands were going to rid the earth of every deer. Hunting from a tree stand was cheating. There were states that outlawed them.
Here in Indiana you cannot hunt over bait ie corn or piled up apples. No deer cocaine or similar type of attraction. But you can put out food plots, leave corn,beans, sunflower or milo standing and hunt right smack dab in the middle of them.
When I hear someone shooting a compound cussing a crossbow shooter I always say the traditional hunters could say the same about compounds.
I’m a firm believer that it comes down to making clean ethical shots on game.
Here in Indiana a few years ago the state approved us to use centerfire rifles for deer. Up until then we could use shotgun with slug, muzzleloader or pistol caliber rifle. There are a pile of people right now as we speak trying to get the centerfire rifles banned.
If I lived in a state that does not allow crossbow hunting for impaired hunters I would get a doctor to write up something that states you are impaired. Contact your local congressman or representative and set up a meeting with them. Contact organizations for handicap and or impaired and see if they can get you on track. Trust me your not the only one looking to hunt with a crossbow.
In closing a crossbow is heavy and difficult to clamber around with on a large ground covering hunt. They are perfect for stand hunting especially in ground blinds and Redneck type blind hunts.