Conspiracy Theory

[Straight Arrow]

it is a miracle there are any.

Again, Eric Albus rhetoric, although lamely striving at clever sarcasm, is way off.

Obviously, Eric, you missed BACK FROM THE BRINK which is the great story of the critical restoration of wildlife in Montana. Montana ranchers of a bygone era who highly valued wildlife played an important role in that very successful effort. (I suspect Sen Brenden missed that story too.)

 

[mixedbag]

I'll just hope the rich guys need an extra maintenance man for their big properties in NZ and bring me along.

 

[Eric Albus]

straight....back from the brink.... my great grandparents were some of those same kind of folks who valued and created habitat for wildlife....today they would have been accused of "hoarding". ...and I doubt if Brenden missed it....he is a great advocate for Montana's wildlife....he is just thoroughly disgusted w/ the mis-management.

james riley, you are correct...when something becomes more valuable than the wildlife, they take a backseat.

Do any of you think there would be one animal left in Africa were it not for the value they have?

 

[BuzzH]

Right on cue...the Africa to U.S. comparison,

Yeah, no difference between game management, policy, regulations, rules, between Africa and the U.S.

What a joke of a comparison.

Time for some new lines Eric...there can be value in wildlife without a dollar sign attached.

 

[tjones]

...and I doubt if Brenden missed it....he is a great advocate for Montana's wildlife

Classic,,,,,,,,

 

[Straight Arrow]

Eric Albus

.today they would have been accused of "hoarding".

Probablynot, as they likely were not selling access to public trust wildlife.

.he is a great advocate for Montana's wildlife.

If that is true of Brenden, it is well hidden, as his actions, rhetoric, votes, disdain for wildlife, FWP and Montana sportsmen have been on public display in Helena for the past many legislative sessions.

Do any of you think there would be one animal left in Africa were it not for the value they have?

All I can say is "Really, Eric?!!"

 

[WV Hunter]

Soviet Union suffers worst wheat harvest in 55 years. Labor and food riots in Poland. Soviet troops invade. Cuba and Nicaragua reach troop strength goals of 500,000. El Salvador and Honduras fall. Greens party gains control of West German Parliament. Demands withdrawal of nuclear weapons from European soil. Mexico plunged into revolution. NATO dissolves. United States stands alone.

It's Happening!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!11!!!!!!!!

 

[noharleyyet]

Jade Helm


http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/military-ops-on-u-s-soil-raise-martial-law-fears/

 

[James Riley]

Jade Helm
http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/military-ops-on-u-s-soil-raise-martial-law-fears/

"The looming Jade Helm exercise, set for July 15 through Sept. 15, labels Texas and Utah as hostile areas."

So what's the problem?

 

[tjones]

Didn't Texas secede?

 

[James Riley]

james riley, you are correct...when something becomes more valuable than the wildlife, they take a backseat.

The problem lies in valuation. Adam Smith, et al, championed a notion of enlightened self interest, or self interest properly understood. Quite simply, you don't kill the goose that lays your golden eggs IF you are enlightened, or if your notion of self-interest is properly understood. On the other hand, if you are not enlightened or you don't understand your own self interest, then you sell the goose, or you cut it up and give everyone a piece.

So, a young man, like myself, finds upon his father's dresser a pile of change which his father dumps there every day after work. While rooting through it for gas money, or foosball money, or some other very important need, he also spies a little metal canister full of silver dollars from the 1800s. Looks like change to him! And, because, like a State, he is young, short-sighted, lacking in education, greedy, selfish and disrespectful of the true owner, he takes it and goes to party. Forty years later he wishes he had those silver dollars, if not for himself then for his son.

Is this analogy paternalistic and patronizing? Tough. An analogy, by definition, is not the thing itself. It is no argument to simply point that out. Rather, it is incumbent upon those who wish to defeat it to draw a distinction with a relevant difference.

 

[WV Hunter]

Didn't Texas secede?

Not but they did succeed

 

[noharleyyet]

Not but they did succeed

That's how I read it when the meter buzzed.

 

[Eric Albus]

straight, were it not for value there would be next to zero wildlife left in Africa....that is just a fact. I know to many landowners and professional hunters there. In South Africa it is pretty much high fence game ranches.

I hear accusations of "hoarding" all the time toward folks who are not leasing their ranches out, or allow no hunting at all....

James, the problem lies not in the valuation, but within those who fail to understand the value.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I hear accusations of "hoarding" all the time toward folks who are not leasing their ranches out, or allow no hunting at all...

It is completely your choice, which I adamantly defend; but it seems apparent you hear only what you choose to hear.

 

[James Riley]

James, the problem lies not in the valuation, but within those who fail to understand the value.

The problem does lie in valuation. Where valuation is set by capitalism utilizing money to determine value, those who fail to understand value and/or have money, have an advantage over those who set valuation by the heart, understand value and/or do not have money.

The mistake so often made in the U.S. is assuming that if individuals really have the heart and really value something, they will get the money to buy it. The mistake so often made in the U.S. is forgetting that the collective had the heart and really valued something, so they refused to sell and kept it for themselves. The capitalist want it. If they can't buy it outright, they will try to buy the legislature and get it that way.

So you see, if they succeed in buying the land, they will believe they have established value and proved their thesis about desire. In actuality, they will have demonstrated the opposite: They have no heart.

Here we have the classic American conflict which can be resolved by a patriotic understanding and remembrance of just what the collective has accomplished. While it is true that the horseman (collective) does less without the horse (capitalists with heart), the horse is food without the horseman. Horses are not enlightened enough to understand their plight should they get the freedom they claim they want. If U.S. horses don't submit to U.S. horsemen, we will all submit to some nation of riders.

The collective too, has heart. All would be wise to listen to it.

 

[BuzzH]

Hasn't it been blatantly obvious for decades, that most outfitters have no heart when it comes to DIY hunters, public lands, and public wildlife?

It has to me...and its on full display at most GF/FWP meetings, commission meetings, and legislative sessions.

Wildlife resources are routinely reduced to a dollar sign...

Further, the DIY hunters and Public Lands are road-blocks to full market value.

 

[Nemont]

The problem does lie in valuation. Where valuation is set by capitalism utilizing money to determine value, those who fail to understand value and/or have money, have an advantage over those who set valuation by the heart, understand value and/or do not have money.

The mistake so often made in the U.S. is assuming that if individuals really have the heart and really value something, they will get the money to buy it. The mistake so often made in the U.S. is forgetting that the collective had the heart and really valued something, so they refused to sell and kept it for themselves. The capitalist want it. If they can't buy it outright, they will try to buy the legislature and get it that way.

So you see, if they succeed in buying the land, they will believe they have established value and proved their thesis about desire. In actuality, they will have demonstrated the opposite: They have no heart.

Here we have the classic American conflict which can be resolved by a patriotic understanding and remembrance of just what the collective has accomplished. While it is true that the horseman (collective) does less without the horse (capitalists with heart), the horse is food without the horseman. Horses are not enlightened enough to understand their plight should they get the freedom they claim they want. If U.S. horses don't submit to U.S. horsemen, we will all submit to some nation of riders.

The collective too, has heart. All would be wise to listen to it.

That may be the biggest load of bullshit ever posted on this website.

Nemont

 

[James Riley]

straight, were it not for value there would be next to zero wildlife left in Africa....that is just a fact. I know to many landowners and professional hunters there. In South Africa it is pretty much high fence game ranches.

African wildlife always had value. The problem was in the valuation. Wildlife used to be free and abundant until current valuation methodologies were introduced. It is disingenuous to now credit those methodologies with being the savior. Capitalism abhors a vacuum and whenever it sees something free, abundant and valuable, the immediate response is to reduce the amount to a point where it is no longer free, valuation is monetary, and and a profit can be made in the sale thereof. Those who had the money to take it, own it. Those who can't afford to buy it, don't get it. An American is more able to kill an elephant than the guy who's people used to do it as a matter of course. Someday maybe the Chinese will be more likely to hunt our elk than we are.

I saw it happen in my own country with water. Next is air. Land is long gone, except to the extent a different valuation methodology was applied.

 

[James Riley]

That may be the biggest load of bullshit ever posted on this website.

Nemont

Cognitive dissonance is interesting to see.