Colorado Pref. Points- Point of diminishing returns?

[jt13]

Assuming that someone with 4-5 points now will never catch up the the point creep that will keep the high end units unattainable, whats the magic number for points without getting caught in no mans land?

Seems that there's lots of tags that go in the <3 points area then plenty more that go 12+ points.

 

[LCH]

I plan on cashing mine in at 3 points next year. Looking at the odds for the last several years, I just don't see much value to be gained by accumulating more than that amount.

It seems like there are several hunts you can draw with 3 points that limit the total number of hunters for the unit for all seasons, have good access to public ground, and carry 25-35% success according to CPW stats.

 

[FYT]

I draw every year for elk so have no points, but I'm building a few mule deer points and it seems to me that 3-4 is a sweetspot until you get up to 12-15+, at least for deer. Guessing Elk may be similar.

 

[sdkhunter]

Yeah, I agree. In fact I had 7 elk PP's this year and I didn't even buy one - I just didn't see much advatage for me.... Believe I should be able to hunt most of the units I want with 2-4...... Suppose it's always possible that future changes to seasons/draws/etc could change that but right now all we can do is look at the stats/options in the current system...

 

[nwihunter]

I have a stupid question since I’m new to western hunting and have 0 points anywhere. Let’s say you are stuck in no mans land with 15 points and would like to get into a unit you could draw with 3. Are you able to say wage 3 of your points to try and draw or do you have to go all in and use them up for a unit that only needed 3.

 

[LWC55]

I have a stupid question since I’m new to western hunting and have 0 points anywhere. Let’s say you are stuck in no mans land with 15 points and would like to get into a unit you could draw with 3. Are you able to say wage 3 of your points to try and draw or do you have to go all in and use them up for a unit that only needed 3.

In CO you would have to use all 15 points on the 3 point unit. In some states you can share points. So in a state like WY you could share with a buddy and each have 7.5 points or share with 5 buddies and each have 3 points for the draw.

 

[Elk247]

A true preference point system, like Colorado is for elk and deer, has made it impossible for some units to be drawn for guys just starting out. I would say three to four points is all it really pays to save for elk now with point creep the way it is. Even some of the units that take a few more than four are seeing some point creep especially for non-residents. Deer is not as bad because there is no OTC tags.

 

[LopeHunter]

You could place all the CO elk units into a spreadsheet with a column for each year for each of the past 3 years showing the points required to draw then see some units are not trending above a few points, say 5, while others require a fraction of a point more per year so lag the point creep of the top units that go up about a full point per year. I prefer to hunt more often than wait but have over 10 elk points in CO as was busy on other hunts the last decade. I will burn them next year or the next then may not even apply for elk again in CO. If can find a CO elk hunt for under 5 points where you can have a quality hunt then can hunt that every few years. If all elk hunts go to draw as was done with deer hunts long ago then should take some pressure off the lower end elk units as the yearly archery OTC hunters will no longer have the option to grab an OTC tag while also building points along side point-builders.

 

[KipCarson]

A true preference point system, like Colorado is for elk and deer, has made it impossible for some units to be drawn for guys just starting out. I would say three to four points is all it really pays to save for elk now with point creep the way it is. Even some of the units that take a few more than four are seeing some point creep especially for non-residents. Deer is not as bad because there is no OTC tags.

I have a question about Colorado being a “true preference point” state. I have hunted in Colorado 18 of the last 24 years so I guess I should have this figured out by now. There have been repeated times where my dad, brother, or cousins have drawn the same tags I applied for having less points than I had. I thought a true preference point system meant the highest point holders should get the tag then the next level and so on… I have been told that is how it is supposed to work but in practical application within my family it has not played out that way, usually to my detriment. It’s to the point where they say I am cursed lol! Do you know what may be happening there?

It seems now our preferred units we used to be able to get a deer and elk tags every other year now are up to 3 points on paper, but unfortunately I am now at four points and did not even draw the tag with that. the barrier to entry for a NR is definitely getting longer on deer, but thankfully there are always the otc elk opportunities for guys wanting to get their feet wet.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I have a question about Colorado being a “true preference point” state. I have hunted in Colorado 18 of the last 24 years so I guess I should have this figured out by now. There have been repeated times where my dad, brother, or cousins have drawn the same tags I applied for having less points than I had. I thought a true preference point system meant the highest point holders should get the tag then the next level and so on… I have been told that is how it is supposed to work but in practical application within my family it has not played out that way, usually to my detriment. It’s to the point where they say I am cursed lol! Do you know what may be happening there?

It seems now our preferred units we used to be able to get a deer and elk tags every other year now are up to 3 points on paper, but unfortunately I am now at four points and did not even draw the tag with that. the barrier to entry for a NR is definitely getting longer on deer, but thankfully there are always the otc elk opportunities for guys wanting to get their feet wet.

If you applied in the draw, for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, or turkey in the same unit as your dad and you have 3 points and he had 2 there is no possible way he would draw and you wouldn't.

That being said, you can get leftover tags, returned tags, there is a hybrid draw for the high point units and sheep-goat-moose draws are 3 pref points then bonus points. So there are some ways that one could get a tag and have less points than you have.

 

[bushman13]

Is it possible KipCarson was a NR and his family were R during the draws in question?

If you applied in the draw, for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, or turkey in the same unit as your dad and you have 3 points and he had 2 there is no possible way he would draw and you wouldn't.

That being said, you can get leftover tags, returned tags, there is a hybrid draw for the high point units and sheep-goat-moose draws are 3 pref points then bonus points. So there are some ways that one could get a tag and have less points than you have.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Is it possible the op was a NR and his family were R during the draws in question?

Yep, there are different quotas for R v NR. Also landowner vouchers.

Also should be noted that there are a few situations where it’s actually easier ie less points for a NR to get a tag than a R.

 

[Buffs35]

For elk, you are in no-man's land anywhere between 8 and 20. Just depends on what unit you are chasing. People saving for tougher units eventually give up and skew other units higher. I have been collecting Colorado elk points for over 50% of my life, and am not close to the top units. Hasn't stopped me from hunting though.

 

[KipCarson]

That’s what I’ve been told but facts are facts and it’s happened on a couple of occasions. It was only deer and elk draws and we are all NR. It’s been a few years since it happened last, the past several years we just all haven't been drawn for anything.

 

[vanish]

That’s what I’ve been told but facts are facts and it’s happened on a couple of occasions. It was only deer and elk draws and we are all NR. It’s been a few years since it happened last, the past several years we just all haven't been drawn for anything.

Are you specifying the tag you want as first choice? Colorado PPs only apply to first choice.

You'll have to forgive me but I have to assume some sort of user error. For example, guys from New Mexico get this wrong all the time, as their draw works in order of person ( Ie I can draw my third choice before Bob is even considered), not in order of choice ( all people's first choices, then all second, then all third).

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

That’s what I’ve been told but facts are facts and it’s happened on a couple of occasions. It was only deer and elk draws and we are all NR. It’s been a few years since it happened last, the past several years we just all haven't been drawn for anything.

I'm with Vanish, no offense at all these systems are ridiculously complicated it's most likely not a problem with system rather your applications were not identical, or that you app had an error on it and they tossed it or something else like that...

Similarly there have been a number of times on this forum where people have said "Well I asked the warden and he told me X and my buddy asked the same thing and they told him Y" by the end of the thread we find out that the questions weren't worded exactly the same, and that tiny difference, that people didn't think was important, was the reason the warden answered one way or another. (See: corner crossing, stream access laws, parking on the side of an interstate in WY)

Also it's possible the cow they use to pick app numbers crapped right on the line and the CPAW official had to make a judgement call and then there was some confusion because the dude from Elizabeth that writes out all the numbers by hand was taught to print in Zaner Bloser, but then gall who types the numbers into the computer, who grew up in Denver, learned to write in D'Nealian so she thought the 4 he put down was a 9 and well that series of event lead to you not getting your tag.


Yep hand writing joke your welcome.

 

[KipCarson]

It’s been first

Are you specifying the tag you want as first choice? Colorado PPs only apply to first choice.

You'll have to forgive me but I have to assume some sort of user error. For example, guys from New Mexico get this wrong all the time, as their draw works in order of person ( Ie I can draw my third choice before Bob is even considered), not in order of choice ( all people's first choices, then all second, then all third).

Its always been first choice for everyone. The first week of archery season has been a family pilgrimage for years, we always put that as first choice with PP as second choice. It was always a family trip where we would hunt our unit together or no hunt at all. We never risked putting multiple choices to end up being scattered over different units. I know it does not make sense and no one has ever been able to explain what happened those few times they were pulled before me. This was all since the online application process was in place, not a decade ago when we were doing paper applications, and if you have a code wrong or something it alerts you so I don’t think it was any kind of application error? Who knows, water under the bridge and I still had fun in camp and tagging along filming dad put an arrow in a cool bull

 

[Elk247]

Kip not sure what the case is in that situation you could look it up in the statistics that come out after the draw and see who drew with what points. But preference should take priority.

 

[WildWill]

I try to not build more then 2 or 3 before cashing in for elk and deer.

 

[davinski]

I cashed in 9 points in '06 and 12 points this year. Now that I'm bumping up against 50, I don't plan on banking double digit Colorado points again. I think you've pegged that 3 to 12 point no mans land pretty well. Four or more and you start feeling guilty about burning them on a unit that may not need that many, then it only gets worse the more you have and it's a long decade or so before you can actually pull one of those tags...and the elk quality may well have changed in that time. Not complaining, I've hunted CO elk every single year I've been here between draws, OTC, and leftovers.