Colorado leftover frustration

[SFC B]

I drove by the CPW office in the Springs here yesterday about 1200 and there was already like 20 people camped out in line......I guess in am not digging deeply enough into the leftover "gold" SMH

 

[JohnCushman]

I just did exactly that - I found that it wouldn't validate the code for a Unit after I re-typed it 3-4 times.

Duh! - that was the unit for a cow tag I was trying to get this morning, so I don't hold a deer/elk tag there. But, it DID go through just fine and let me buy my tag for the unit in which I DO hold a deer tag.

I'm shocked that CPW's IT is that good, but there is a ton of quota in the unit that wouldn't validate, so that's what I assume it did.

Luckily - my rifle deer unit is on the list B bear table, so if I do manage to get a cow tag in the other unit, I can still get a bear tag there.

OK, so I have to get my second season bull tag first? Will it work with an OTC bull tag? Vanish....OTC with caps went on sale July 25th.

 

[cedahm]

OK, so I have to get my second season bull tag first? Will it work with an OTC bull tag? Vanish....OTC with caps went on sale July 25th.

I assume that will work as long as you hold a valid deer or elk RIFLE tag that includes the bear unit (which should incl OTC rifle tags, which I don't have for elk in the bear unit that wouldn't validate - I just have OTC archery). But - that's an educated guess on my part based on how the system reacted.

 

[JohnCushman]

I assume that will work as long as you hold a valid deer or elk RIFLE tag that includes the bear unit (which should incl OTC rifle tags, which I don't have for elk in the bear unit that wouldn't validate - I just have OTC archery). But - that's an educated guess on my part based on how the system reacted.

Thanks! I'll give it a try.

 

[Zach]

That was today?

Oops guess I forgot.

 

[AggieOutlaw]

The whole CO leftover system is ridiculous... a complete waste of state resources and customers' time. Why not just have a separate draw? The first come first serve punishes those who don't have the luxury of being able to stand in line or play phone tag. They could charge people a $5-10 non-refundable fee and the applicants could enter at any time after the list comes out. CPW would make a fortune, and it would be much more fair than giving the tags to people who have the time, energy, and luck to win the fight against the "computer glitches."

The money goes back to conservation. The system and sales reps aren't overwhelmed. People don't have to wait on hold, wait in line, or feel cheated. Everyone wins.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

The whole CO leftover system is ridiculous... a complete waste of state resources and customers' time. Why not just have a separate draw? The first come first serve punishes those who don't have the luxury of being able to stand in line or play phone tag. They could charge people a $5-10 non-refundable fee and the applicants could enter at any time after the list comes out. CPW would make a fortune, and it would be much more fair than giving the tags to people who have the time, energy, and luck to win the fight against the "computer glitches."

The money goes back to conservation. The system and sales reps aren't overwhelmed. People don't have to wait on hold, wait in line, or feel cheated. Everyone wins.

It's funny you say that, because Colorado already does just that. It has a separate draw. It's called the leftover draw. I don't understand how anyone can complain about not getting leftover tags before today. Colorado gives you four choices in the normal draw, and only takes points for your first choice. Then does an entirely new draw called the leftover draw where all leftover tags are up for grabs, again for no points. You literally have 4 chances to apply for a tag without using points before today. Clearly if you wanted that tag you didn't want it bad enough.

The reality is that people either don't read the regs well enough to understand that they have all those chances, or they're too stubborn to pick up a tag when they have the chance before it gets to today. It amazes me that literally thousands of tags anyone could have gotten in the leftover draw or second or third or fourth choice in the normal draw for no points, yet no one wanted them. Then all of a sudden everyone and their mother fight over them today.

So sure, it would be great if Colorado had a leftover draw. Except they already do and everyone just acts like it never happened, then cry foul afterward.

 

[LCH]

The odd thing to me is that you can purchase them over the phone or in person before you can buy them online. The way Wyoming used to be, and I suppose still is following the leftover draw, you could make it a point to be on your computer exactly when the tags went on sale and try to scoop some up. Some were still gone in seconds, systems crash, etc., but at least it takes the human error part out of the equation (except for the operator).

 

[cedahm]

...It's called the leftover draw. I don't understand how anyone can complain about not getting leftover tags before today.

...

It amazes me that literally thousands of tags anyone could have gotten in the leftover draw or second or third or fourth choice in the normal draw for no points, yet no one wanted them. Then all of a sudden everyone and their mother fight over them today.

No arguing that it's a shitshow and needs some work.

But - the big deal on 'Leftover Day' is NOT the Leftover tags that, to your point, were always there. It's the first time RETURNED tags have been made available. In many cases, these are tags that took points or a first-choice to draw. The new rule this year means they are only tags that took <=4 points, so not as crazy as last year when there were some high-teens points tags on there, but still a chance to hunt a 'point' unit for no points and no one had a chance at these after the draw was complete.

The odd thing to me is that you can purchase them over the phone or in person before you can buy them online.

That, IMO, is because CPW and their license system partner (whose name I forget) absolutely knows that their IT can't handle the volume spike on the first release day and would crash instantly (it did anyway after an hour), so limiting the tag transactions, shopping cart contention/canonical management and the corresponding outside 'calls' from their system to the payment processor system to just the 700 license sales agents keeps the pool smaller and more manageable.

Once the initial chaos subsides, the transactional volume on the system is normal again.

I'm curious how other states that allow tag Return handle this. I like that CPW changed to contacting the unsuccessful applicants (in order) for tags that took 5 or more points and offering them the chance, but that still leaves a LOT of limited tags that were completely subscribed to quota out there.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

But - the big deal on 'Leftover Day' is NOT the Leftover tags that, to your point, were always there. It's the first time RETURNED tags have been made available. In many cases, these are tags that took points or a first-choice to draw. The new rule this year means they are only tags that took <=4 points, so not as crazy as last year when there were some high-teens points tags on there, but still a chance to hunt a 'point' unit for no points and no one had a chance at these after the draw was complete.

The big deal to many of us is the reissued tags, yes. But as a whole there are more people clogging up the system and complaining when just trying to pick up leftover tags. At least that's how it is in the GJ office where my buddy works. All morning he's getting customer after customer walking or calling in complaining that the should have got some leftover tag. Or claiming they almost had some tag that wasn't even on the list, and demanding to be written one right there. It's pretty silly.

Regardless, I think most would agree that opening those reissued tags online simultaneously, like LCH said, would make guys like us happier because it leaves our fate in our own hands so to speak. But I feel that there's really no way to fix the first day. The systems are going to crash regardless. The real fun begins today where they're going to be dropping reissued tags randomly. Maybe if I spend less time working and more time checking the leftover list I could end up with a deer tag in my pocket.

I do appreciate the 5 or more points rule. My best friend's other best friend's dad, who's a former army ranger, got the call on a reissued archery 61 bull tag. Exciting to hear guys are actually reaping the benefits of the new system.

 

[jlmatthew]

I got two tags yesterday, what's the problem?

I liked the reissue process they did last year with the preview list the day before and the set 9:00 am sale on Tuesday. Not too sure yet on this years process. But I do think the first 24 hours a tag becomes available as a reissue it should be open to residents only.

 

[cedahm]

The big deal to many of us is the reissued tags, yes. But as a whole there are more people clogging up the system and complaining when just trying to pick up leftover tags. At least that's how it is in the GJ office where my buddy works. All morning he's getting customer after customer walking or calling in complaining that the should have got some leftover tag. Or claiming they almost had some tag that wasn't even on the list, and demanding to be written one right there. It's pretty silly.

True - no matter what, you can't fix stupid (or lazy).

Regardless, I think most would agree that opening those reissued tags online simultaneously, like LCH said, would make guys like us happier because it leaves our fate in our own hands so to speak. But I feel that there's really no way to fix the first day. The systems are going to crash regardless. The real fun begins today where they're going to be dropping reissued tags randomly. Maybe if I spend less time working and more time checking the leftover list I could end up with a deer tag in my pocket.

Yeah - my imagination of the CPW thought process is that - it's easy to enlist lots of folks for one day from all parts of the department to sell licenses from the terminals (including leveraging folks @ the license dealers that CPW doesn't have to pay for), but they can't enlist those same folks to handle IT issues, so that's the direction they take.

I feel compelled to point out that we CO residents also voted to not raise fees, so not unexpected that ongoing problems aren't getting as much attention.

 

[Rocky176]

I had to wait being from Pa. to use the online method. I tried last year to call and all I got was a busy signal. It took a few times to reload but I did get a tag this morning for a friend.

 

[LuketheDog]

Sounds like lots of folks completely ignore or forget the Leftover Draw...and clog the system...every...year

I got on the system today and got what I was looking for with no issues.

 

[jmustard]

My general frustration is with the 3rd party that the Colorado DFG uses to sell the tags. In my opinion Colorado has ample opportunities to obtain a tag and I still am going to get an OTC tag for 2nd rifle. The leftover draw did not have the tags I was looking for and out of pure luck the Leftover DAY list did. In a perfect world I would have gotten the tags because I was the first person to get in line/call/ ask for them. Computer glitches are a frustrating part of the over saturation of this fun sport. But when all's said and done, cant cry over spilt milk, I will see ya on the mountain...

 

[AggieOutlaw]

It's funny you say that, because Colorado already does just that. It has a separate draw. It's called the leftover draw. I don't understand how anyone can complain about not getting leftover tags before today. Colorado gives you four choices in the normal draw, and only takes points for your first choice. Then does an entirely new draw called the leftover draw where all leftover tags are up for grabs, again for no points. You literally have 4 chances to apply for a tag without using points before today. Clearly if you wanted that tag you didn't want it bad enough.

The reality is that people either don't read the regs well enough to understand that they have all those chances, or they're too stubborn to pick up a tag when they have the chance before it gets to today. It amazes me that literally thousands of tags anyone could have gotten in the leftover draw or second or third or fourth choice in the normal draw for no points, yet no one wanted them. Then all of a sudden everyone and their mother fight over them today.

So sure, it would be great if Colorado had a leftover draw. Except they already do and everyone just acts like it never happened, then cry foul afterward.

I obviously dunno WTH I'm talking about. I don't even apply in CO. I just see the same complaining every year so I assumed where there was smoke there must be fire.

Thanks for educating me. If it works as you say, I don't know why people complain. And I would call in sick on LO day if I worked at CPW.

I thought everyone was fighting over returned tags anyway. You know, the good ones. Not the scraps. Again. I dunno sh*t from shinola on CO tags.

 

[Outdooraddict]

You want frustrating??? The vendor I use gives us papers with the number we arrive at- so first arrival gets number 1. I'm third in line, and my vendor gives me number 10! What gives?! Well, he was first and all the other employees had numbers 2-7. It's a little bittersweet- they deserve to be in the game too, but I wish they were there at work early to make it a little more fair. Or else I shouldn't have been there at 7:00. Oh well............