CO: Reissue & Leftover Process potential change

[cedahm]

I get that it's theoretically easier for employees of dealer locations to game the system and there are some anecdotal references to it occurring, but is that really a pervasive issue?

I think a good CORA request would be the quantities of Reissue tags purchased from dealer location, CPW office, or online, timestamp of when it was added to the list and timestamp of when it was sold.

Thoughts on managing these only through online sales? Or online + CPW offices only?

PS: I have not yet received a response to my email from CPW.

PPS: Man - the offseason is beginning too early. If the pheasant population wasn't horrific in my areas I'd be out there enjoying the new snow cover, but alas, CO reissue tags are on my mind.

 

[Saranac84]

I get that it's theoretically easier for employees of dealer locations to game the system and there are some anecdotal references to it occurring, but is that really a pervasive issue?

I've seen it happen. Not necessarily high-point "glory tags" but it takes less than 5 minutes to pick off 10 tags for employees and friends.

It's hard to say how pervasive it's been the past few years, since only "Reissue Day" mattered. I can't imagine this flaw won't be exploited this summer. We're all greedy and everyone wants more/better hunts. Who wouldn't game the system and fill their season with 2-5 point tags while not burning points?

Maybe CPW has thought of this?

 

[Bluffgruff]

I got reissue tags from the old old system (which will be the new system) and the new old system (that I'm glad is going away) and I'm happy with the change. I would rather know what I missed out on. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to hunt those tags. I say if you work the counter at a place that sells hunting licenses, bless you, and enjoy your 2-4 point tags next fall, hope I see you out there.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I think a good CORA request would be the quantities of Reissue tags purchased from dealer location, CPW office, or online, timestamp of when it was added to the list and timestamp of when it was sold.

Thoughts on managing these only through online sales? Or online + CPW offices only?

PS: I have not yet received a response to my email from CPW.

PPS: Man - the offseason is beginning too early. If the pheasant population wasn't horrific in my areas I'd be out there enjoying the new snow cover, but alas, CO reissue tags are on my mind.

1. Good luck with getting detail info from a CORA request... they send you a steaming turd.

2. It would be interesting to see all the transactions that occurred day 1 of the reissue tag sale. My suspicion is that 1 in 10 is sold at a retail location, but the time stamp will show that 50% or more of the first 300 or so transactions are from retail locations. My guess is this pattern will continue now to the lists as they are issued each week. You won’t have a chance unless you are first in line at Walmart or wherever and folks with personal access to machines will be able to get 100% of the tags they want.

 

[rwc101]

Relying on the competency (and availability) of a Walmart employee to land a tag.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Relying on the competency (and availability) of a Walmart employee to land a tag.

Boomers didn’t want to have to ask their kids how to use the interwebs ... though if you could get a tag via Facebook they’d be all about it

 

[LuketheDog]

My buddies at Fly Shop will be thrilled. They'll grab the premium tags at 9:00 every Wednesday and everyone else can pick up the scraps and gripe about how they got booted from the queue after a 45 minute wait....

Are your buddies really going to buy ALL the tags, or will they be competing with every other license vendor those mornings? There are a lot of vendors, and I'd bet if employees are blowing off customers to buy their own tags there will be some pissed off employers. I don't have a huge problem with the change, I've missed on a bunch of good tags because I was in the car or working and not on the computer.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Are your buddies really going to buy ALL the tags, or will they be competing with every other license vendor those mornings? There are a lot of vendors, and I'd bet if employees are blowing off customers to buy their own tags there will be some pissed off employers. I don't have a huge problem with the change, I've missed on a bunch of good tags because I was in the car or working and not on the computer.

Can’t imagine there is much demand for hunting licenses at the fly shop, I assume they typically just sell fishing licenses and they will have the machine all to themselves

 

[LuketheDog]

Can’t imagine there is much demand for hunting licenses at the fly shop, I assume they typically just sell fishing licenses and they will have the machine all to themselves

I worked a a fly shop for a while, you can bet your tail I'd have that machine fired up for hunting licenses on reissue day

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I worked a a fly shop for a while, you can bet your tail I'd have that machine fired up for hunting licenses on reissue day

Not to mention all the machines held by “vendors” like that private clubs/guides etc, eg Elk Creek Lodge in meeker is a “vendor” but only for their members.

 

[Blacktailbc]

Basically boils down to this:

Show of hands for who has purchased any tag on leftover day over the internet. Let’s say any tag taking more than 1 point.
I’ll wait..

 

[Saranac84]

Are your buddies really going to buy ALL the tags, or will they be competing with every other license vendor those mornings? There are a lot of vendors, and I'd bet if employees are blowing off customers to buy their own tags there will be some pissed off employers. I don't have a huge problem with the change, I've missed on a bunch of good tags because I was in the car or working and not on the computer.

I'm not saying that my buddies or any particular shop will get all of the tags. But there are plenty of outdoor stores, fly shops, gas stations and outfitters with license portals.

You don't think guys working in a shop near Craig aren't going to be logged in and ready to go when there's a Unit 3 4th season tag on the list? You won't beat them to the tag.

I can't overstate how quickly tags can be picked up directly off the CPW system. And then a second tag. And then a third... They don't have to charge a CC between tags. All the while, you're checking "I acknowledge above" and entering the the three digit code off your credit card.

 

[LuketheDog]

Basically boils down to this:

Show of hands for who has purchased any tag on leftover day over the internet. Let’s say any tag taking more than 1 point.
I’ll wait..

I have...

 

[LuketheDog]

I'm not saying that my buddies or any particular shop will get all of the tags. But there are plenty of outdoor stores, fly shops, gas stations and outfitters with license portals.

You don't think guys working in a shop near Craig aren't going to be logged in and ready to go when there's a Unit 3 4th season tag on the list? You won't beat them to the tag.

I can't overstate how quickly tags can be picked up directly off the CPW system. And then a second tag. And then a third... They don't have to charge a CC between tags. All the while, you're checking "I acknowledge above" and entering the the three digit code off your credit card.

You make it sound like a tiny group has the market cornered and buys tags at will, that's not how it is. Last time I looked there were 700-800 vendors across the state and nearly all will have people punching the keys for a small handful of licenses available, you are free to wake up early and get in line at a machine like the rest of us. Frankly, I think if getting in the 'slightly faster' line for a tag is a guy's perk for otherwise getting paid peanuts at a fly shop, gas station, or big box store, he'd better enjoy that while it lasts. And if you think a vendor is abusing the system, file a complaint with CPW.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

You make it sound like a tiny group has the market cornered and buys tags at will, that's not how it is. Last time I looked there were 700-800 vendors across the state and nearly all will have people punching the keys for a small handful of licenses available, you are free to wake up early and get in line at a machine like the rest of us. Frankly, I think if getting in the 'slightly faster' line for a tag is a guy's perk for otherwise getting paid peanuts at a fly shop, gas station, or big box store, he'd better enjoy that while it lasts. And if you think a vendor is abusing the system, file a complaint with CPW.

That’s the whole point he’s making though...

The complaint of the online system is that it “wasn’t fair” because a small subset of people had an advantage because of circumstances, they worked from home? They checked their phone a lot? They knew how to use the internet?

Now you just switched the “isn’t fair group”, now it’s fly shop guys, or I guess to your point retired boomers who can stand in line during the work week to get a tag.

Some 40 year old with a job, taking the kids to school then heading to work hasn’t really had their chances improved at all.

This way seems “more fair” if you don’t understand how the system works, but it’s really not.

I think if you made the system online only for the leftovers you might mitigate any particular group having an advantage, but luddites would still complain.

Hence my earlier comment, kill the whole system, point creep is a major issues anyway and this just makes it worse, the fact that someone can essentially draw a tag and then scout a unit then return it if they don’t find a animal they like... over and over and over again is ridiculous

 

[marksjeep]

Vendor privilege. Why are there even vendor terminals any more? CPW vendors should be required to use the same UI as everyone else. No machines, no advantage. Hell, the CPW office in GJ has a PC setup in the lobby specifically for customers to access the cpwshop.com system.

Maybe I'm missing something. Highly likely, actually.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I am ok with all of it as long as when you get an antlered tag you loose all of your preference points for that species.

That should get some people spicy on this fine Wednesday morning.

 

[TOGIE]

cpw can garner more revenue by doing what wyoming does

make all b tags a separate drawing, there's more application fee revenue.

maybe cpw can be nice and still allow returned tags but you only get 1/2 your money and no points back or 1/2 your points and no money back, unless you have a medical or military leave conflict. that should solve a lot of return abuse.

i dunno if we can ever get to a point where leftovers require points for anything. though, just wait, colorado will start a separate point scheme for the leftover draw. EL points we'll call them, elk leftover. DL, deer leftover. don't miss a year and fall behind people. i can see the dollar signs shining in the eyes of the commissioners already

 

[Jerky]

I have...

Me too

 

[Saranac84]

wllm1313, thanks for helping to articulate my point.

Shop dudes at an empty license counter aren't abusing the system. Neither was I, when I minimized the spreadsheets on my monitor to refresh the list every 10 minutes. We're all trying to cut the line.

My concern is the efficiency of buying in person, directly though the CPW portal. Let's say a retiree gets to Murdoch's in Salida and is the only person in line. His heart is set on one of six EE049O1A tags. The clerk is fast and gets the tag printed 15 seconds after 9:00. There is absolutely nothing preventing him from requesting one of four AM049O1M tags immediately after. In 45 seconds, those tags are committed and printed out. Payment for the licenses is a leisurely process since there's no risk in losing them from your cart. It is impossible to work faster on CPWSHOP than a competent clerk wired directly to the system. This won't happen everywhere but with 700+ license vendors statewide it's naive to assume people won't take advantage.

But I guess this is more fair?

And yes, all A tags should clear out your points. Whether it's a 1st or 2nd choice, leftover or reissue.