Proposed Big Game Season Structure (BGSS) 2025-2029 - Colorado

[seeth07]

If archery goes draw and rifle stays OTC, people are just going to move to the rifle hunts.

I disagree. People will enter the draw and get the archery tags with almost 100% success and I bet a lot of them for residents go as 2nd choices. Residents with over 8 points probably a little different strategy as they are on the cusp of likely getting the tag they have been saving for.

 

[Southern Elk]

Don’t see that happening. In my age group (millennial) I know about 15 “archery hunters” that take their bows for a hike every year in the Denver metro. I know a couple other guys that hunt archery and rifle and they do pretty well with both. Most have never seen an elk while hunting. They think can Haynes is awesome and don’t even own a rifle. It’s the cool thing to do. They aren’t doing it to fill their freezers. Most have only been hunting for the last 5 or so years.

I would say in the same age and area demographic I know about 3 rifle hunters.

Just a small personal observation of the millennial hunting crowd.

So faced with rifle hunting or not hunting at all, they wouldn’t hunt? That’s crazy!

 

[Trial153]

I am back in for a RFW tag next year so I think I will buy just buy another point an see how things pan out. I am in no man’s land for points right now, too many to waste and too little to draw what I’d like. As long as RFW tags are available at least I have options.

I hope this is the right move for the state however from the outside looking in this looks to me more like a re roll of the dice vs a long term solution

 

[Wind in His Hair]

Surprised they would go draw for archery and leave rifle tags over the counter? You’d think rifle season harvest rates would much higher.

Yep, thats what they want is for elk to be shot out. Then in 7-9 years when the population is in noticeable decline, they will blame it on the hunters and not the wolves, and reduce hunting opportunity. Colorado is going to slowly shut down hunting, one season and species at a time. Mtn Lion currently on the block.

 

[Trial153]

Yep, thats what they want is for elk to be shot out. Then in 7-9 years when the population is in noticeable decline, they will blame it on the hunters and not the wolves, and reduce hunting opportunity. Colorado is going to slowly shut down hunting, one season and species at a time. Mtn Lion currently on the block.

Yeah I am not big on conspiracy theories.

I don’t think is part of some diabolical plan. I do think that they are trying to manage multiple sometimes conflicting ideas about hunter’s want out of their seasons. Opportunity, value, quality…that means different things to different people

 

[Bigjay73]

Yep, thats what they want is for elk to be shot out. Then in 7-9 years when the population is in noticeable decline, they will blame it on the hunters and not the wolves, and reduce hunting opportunity. Colorado is going to slowly shut down hunting, one season and species at a time. Mtn Lion currently on the block.

Amazes me that people actually think this way

 

[TOGIE]

So faced with rifle hunting or not hunting at all, they wouldn’t hunt? That’s crazy!

there will remain gobs of 2nd choice archery tags. everyone will still be able to archery hunt if they want to. but there will start to be a pinch on second choice tags in the future i'm sure. the first to feel the pinch will be NRs with the unlimited nature of the tags going away. which, is a good thing in the long run.

 

[Oak]

Yep, thats what they want is for elk to be shot out. Then in 7-9 years when the population is in noticeable decline, they will blame it on the hunters and not the wolves, and reduce hunting opportunity.

So in your conspiracy theory, are the elk shot out or all killed by wolves?

 

[elkduds]

Thanks for posting, @Oak.



Trying to overlay this w potential recommendations from the draw restructure group. Seems unlikely any current OTC archery elk tags will require enough points to get into hybrid draw range. Wondering if you see anything in this BGSS proposal will impact recommendations of the draw group? Has the draw group been taking these recommendations into account while forming their recommendations?

My impression is that shifting all archery elk to draw is partially a test to see how shifting all OTC to draw will go. I see this as an economic test for the agency and the communities that rely heavily on hunting season $, what will the actual impact be?

Noting CPW acknowledged higher success rates in the current later season timing, still recommending return to previous earlier timing. A statement that success rate is not CPW's holy grail.

Considering draw archery elk from the A, B, C license perspective. Archers who are firm on their unit choice will have to use points to assure that tag. Certainly most archery draw tags will still be available after 1st choice draw, as 2/3/4 choice or leftover.

As for deer during 1st season, seems unlikely that there will be enough CPW need for this management tool to be more than a ripple. It will add hunters to 1st season units where available, those units already have low hunter #s through the elk draw.

Noting the changes recommended in season timing seem counter to the most recent CPW strategy for deer CWD, to harvest more mature bucks by having more tags during the rut.

 

[Oak]

Has the draw group been taking these recommendations into account while forming their recommendations?

The DWG did not see the BGSS recommendations before everyone did yesterday, so no.

My impression is that shifting all archery elk to draw is partially a test to see how shifting all OTC to draw will go. I see this as an economic test for the agency and the communities that rely heavily on hunting season $, what will the actual impact be?

I'm not sure how the agency would judge the economic impact on local communities beyond taking them at their word (LOL). And there is not an economic impact to the agency by going totally limited until they set license quotas. In other words, they have control over the impact.

Noting CPW acknowledged higher success rates in the current later season timing, still recommending return to previous earlier timing. A statement that success rate is not CPW's holy grail.

I think it's a statement of them underestimating how truly effective hunters are at piss-pounding mature bucks in late November.

 

[Wind in His Hair]

There is a whole new sub culture in hunting now that I like to term the "hunting bro culture" where it's like gym bro meets outdoor hipster dude and decided to take up hunting and we have hunting bro culture. It is extremely popular, especially amongst bow hunters.

Big followers of Joe Rogan, Cam Hanes, and wear flatbills

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

So faced with rifle hunting or not hunting at all, they wouldn’t hunt? That’s crazy!

God forbid a bow hunter hunt elk outside of the rut

 

[Dsnow9]

So faced with rifle hunting or not hunting at all, they wouldn’t hunt? That’s crazy!

Absolutely

 

[cedahm]

So faced with rifle hunting or not hunting at all, they wouldn’t hunt? That’s crazy!

Count me as crazy then - I resemble this remark more and more as I age both in absolute terms and in my hunting life. If I never personally kill another elk with a rifle I'm totally OK with that. I love the elk woods in September, the challenge of getting close, the vocal interactions, the practice, the ability to hunt multiple GMU's/DAU's depending on conditions, and the added bonus of grouse on the table with no BB's in the meat.

Plus, I still will help/guide/pack on rifle hunts (usually more than one) with family and friends every year, which for me is just as fun and rewarding as having the tag in my own pocket. It also keeps the freezer full of elk meat.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Don’t see that happening. In my age group (millennial) I know about 15 “archery hunters” that take their bows for a hike every year in the Denver metro. I know a couple other guys that hunt archery and rifle and they do pretty well with both. Most have never seen an elk while hunting. They think can Haynes is awesome and don’t even own a rifle. It’s the cool thing to do. They aren’t doing it to fill their freezers. Most have only been hunting for the last 5 or so years.

I would say in the same age and area demographic I know about 3 rifle hunters.

Just a small personal observation of the millennial hunting crowd.

you think they just quit hunting? Or get more into the points game?

 

[Deckerp]

Surprised they would go draw for archery and leave rifle tags over the counter? You’d think rifle season harvest rates would much higher.

Yeah it is:

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/Statistics/Elk/2022StatewideElkHarvest.pdf

I had never looked at this data before - their harvest numbers for bulls in the unit I hunt are 10x what I would have expected. The 20-25% success rate is also higher than I would have thought. Are there way more elk then I realize? I would prefer mandatory harvest reports so that these numbers weren’t an extrapolation. Does anyone know if they correct for a possible survey completion bias? (I could see successful hunters being more likely to complete a survey).

 

[Mallardsx2]

Don’t see that happening. In my age group (millennial) I know about 15 “archery hunters” that take their bows for a hike every year in the Denver metro. I know a couple other guys that hunt archery and rifle and they do pretty well with both. Most have never seen an elk while hunting. They think can Haynes is awesome and don’t even own a rifle. It’s the cool thing to do. They aren’t doing it to fill their freezers. Most have only been hunting for the last 5 or so years.

I would say in the same age and area demographic I know about 3 rifle hunters.

Just a small personal observation of the millennial hunting crowd.

I think I ran into one of those guys in the flattops a few years back. He was wearing Ninja turtle slippers carrying a long bow so long that Robin Hood himself would have been proud.

He walked up to us and started chatting and then I looked down and saw his " ninja turtle shoes". I started laughing so hard and I couldn't stop. I was literally uncontrollably laughing.....He just stood there looking at me. And now my wife is now sneering at me.

Then finally, I had to say, "bye now!" and walk away and as we were walking away my wife was like "WTF is your problem?!"
I was like "Did you see his Ninja turtle slippers???!!!!" She hadn't even notice them. LOL!

The guy had to have known what I was laughing uncontrollable about. I didn't care. lololol I never did figure out what he was wearing but they looked like this VVV and NO, he was NOT on a stalk. lol

 

[WildWill]

Yeah it is:

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/Statistics/Elk/2022StatewideElkHarvest.pdf

I had never looked at this data before - their harvest numbers for bulls in the unit I hunt are 10x what I would have expected. The 20-25% success rate is also higher than I would have thought. Are there way more elk then I realize? I would prefer mandatory harvest reports so that these numbers weren’t an extrapolation. Does anyone know if they correct for a possible survey completion bias? (I could see successful hunters being more likely to complete a survey).

Yeah I trust CPW's harvest success rate data less then a fart after eating a box of Exlax. I've had 10 big game tags in 9 years and received one survey.

 

[rogerthat]

Amazes me that people actually think this way

40% plus of the population appears to. You shouldn’t be that amazed

 

[Mountain Man]

I am back in for a RFW tag next year so I think I will buy just buy another point an see how things pan out. I am in no man’s land for points right now, too many to waste and too little to draw what I’d like. As long as RFW tags are available at least I have options.

I hope this is the right move for the state however from the outside looking in this looks to me more like a re roll of the dice vs a long term solution

I’m not sure I understand your point that you’re waiting for an RFW tag while living in New York. RFW tags are for residents only.