CO CPW Draw Process Working Group

[elkduds]

Everyone keeps saying it is not working… Why is it not working right now? Just curious what makes it “not work.”

Is it that you didn’t get a tag you wanted or what?

If something only works for one out of a hundred or a thousand, that isn't really working, izzit?

I encourage CPW and the work group to recognize how important the reissue draw is, and make it so everyone interested has the same chance.

 

[Dsnow9]

well the re-issue process is exposable to automation creating an unfair advantage. So that part for sure needs to be tweaked.

I’m playing devils advocate, but are we sure it’s being games by automation. I would think the desert tag would have surely gone to the “automation” if that was the case. Maybe those people paying for set tags were being scammed. Just a thought.

 

[seeth07]

I’m playing devils advocate, but are we sure it’s being games by automation. I would think the desert tag would have surely gone to the “automation” if that was the case. Maybe those people paying for set tags were being scammed. Just a thought.

PM me if you want to really know

 

[Dsnow9]

If something only works for one out of a hundred or a thousand, that isn't really working, izzit?

I encourage CPW and the work group to recognize how important the reissue draw is, and make it so everyone interested has the same chance.

Again, I know a lot of people that have received tags off the reissue. I personally have a handful of tag. Will be hunting this weekend because of one of them. None of those people paid a dime. Maybe it is fair but the odds are really bad.

 

[Dsnow9]

PM me if you want to really know

If it’s really getting scammed and automated and you can prove it, why not report that to CPW or the state to help speed up a change.

I’ll pm you though

 

[seeth07]

Again, I know a lot of people that have received tags off the reissue. I personally have a handful of tag. Will be hunting this weekend because of one of them. None of those people paid a dime. Maybe it is fair but the odds are really bad.

do any of those tags take 5 or more point for a NR?

 

[seeth07]

If it’s really getting scammed and automated and you can prove it, why not report that to CPW or the state to help speed up a change.

I’ll pm you though

because there is nothing illegal about doing it

 

[Dsnow9]

do any of those tags take 5 or more point for a NR?

Yes. One was a 10 point antelope tag for residents and non residents

 

[elkduds]

Again, I know a lot of people that have received tags off the reissue. I personally have a handful of tag. Will be hunting this weekend because of one of them. None of those people paid a dime. Maybe it is fair but the odds are really bad.

I've got some decent tags through the reissue as well. But the system is broken. How about an auction of reissued tags? With points instead of dollars. For the high demand reissue tags, obviously. Get some of those nasty points outta the pool.

 

[Dsnow9]

I've got some decent tags through the reissue as well. But the system is broken. How about an auction of reissued tags? With points instead of dollars. For the high demand reissue tags, obviously. Get some of those nasty points outta the pool.
View attachment 301112

Not bad, I like it!

 

[Wallow]

I just think it's time to make it more fair. By fair I'm not talking about what works best for us as individuals but for the majority of the residents of Colorado. If I'm looking out for myself and being greedy, I'd choose to go back to random issuing from Tuesday to Thursday. That would benefit me because I have the time and the discipline to grind it out until I score. But I realize this isn't fair to the vast majority of hunters who cannot sit at a computer all day long. As for the current system, I do feel it is being exploited by bots and it also gives people with super fast internet an advantage. I also believe some people have figured out flaws in the current system and are taking advantage of it.

I'll be the first to admit that I loved scoring tags and not using points but I'm changing my stance on that now. The Secondary Draw and Re-issued tags should require you to burn your points. Conduct the Secondary Draw just like Primary with the 75/25 and 80/20 splits. Re-issues could be done as a weekly draw with the 75/25 and 80/20 splits. Those with the most points get the tags. No advantage to bots, no advantage to retired guys who have all day to try for random issued tags, and no advantage to those with the fastest internet or to those that can be in-person at a CPW office or other licensing location.

Also to be eligible for the Secondary Draw and Re-issues, make it a requirement that you had to have applied for that species in the Primary Draw. Changing the Secondary Draw to the same process as the Primary Draw would take no work on CPW's part - the system is in place. This could be done in 2024. Having a weekly draw of Re-issues would take some work but is certainly doable. Even a totally random drawing each week (with Res/NR splits) for 2024 would be better than the current system.

 

[Dsnow9]

I just think it's time to make it more fair. By fair I'm not talking about what works best for us as individuals but for the majority of the residents of Colorado. If I'm looking out for myself and being greedy, I'd choose to go back to random issuing from Tuesday to Thursday. That would benefit me because I have the time and the discipline to grind it out until I score. But I realize this isn't fair to the vast majority of hunters who cannot sit at a computer all day long. As for the current system, I do feel it is being exploited by bots and it also gives people with super fast internet an advantage. I also believe some people have figured out flaws in the current system and are taking advantage of it.

I'll be the first to admit that I loved scoring tags and not using points but I'm changing my stance on that now. The Secondary Draw and Re-issued tags should require you to burn your points. Conduct the Secondary Draw just like Primary with the 75/25 and 80/20 splits. Re-issues could be done as a weekly draw with the 75/25 and 80/20 splits. Those with the most points get the tags. No advantage to bots, no advantage to retired guys who have all day to try for random issued tags, and no advantage to those with the fastest internet or to those that can be in-person at a CPW office or other licensing location.

Also to be eligible for the Secondary Draw and Re-issues, make it a requirement that you had to have applied for that species in the Primary Draw. Changing the Secondary Draw to the same process as the Primary Draw would take no work on CPW's part - the system is in place. This could be done in 2024. Having a weekly draw of Re-issues would take some work but is certainly doable. Even a totally random drawing each week (with Res/NR splits) for 2024 would be better than the current system.

I like your ideas, and mine are very similar. Just wanted to get the discussion going again. I definitely think all points should be burned if you get any A tag!

 

[Wallow]

I like your ideas, and mine are very similar. Just wanted to get the discussion going again. I definitely think all points should be burned if you get any A tag!

CPW Commission has a meeting next week. Wouldn't hurt to send the board a bunch of emails about the Secondary Draw and Re-issued Process needing some changes for 2024.

 

[Buffs35]

You are all forgetting what the working group is up against.

 

[Oak]

Secondary draw and the reissue process are under the purview of the draw process working group. The regulatory process for enacting recommendations made by the group is not scheduled to begin until August 2024. I’m fairly certain any changes will not occur until 2025 at the earliest. I suspect that emailing the commission about those issues may garner a similar reply.

 

[Ckleeves]

Is group point averaging still being considered? I know I’m in the minority but I don’t really see it as a bad thing. You don’t hear many complaints about it in the states that do it now. Granted they don’t have a point system as old as CO or near as many point holders.

 

[Hunt West]

Many of the tags returned wouldn’t have enough quantity to warrant a NR tag if it were subject to the allocation splits in the primary draw. If that’s what direction they go I don’t see a problem with it because Colorado should consider it’s tax payers first. BUT, in my opinion, why not just say any R returned tag is resident only and any NR tag returned is NR only until they hit the leftover list at which time it’s first come first serve. I’m not a fan of the youth preference in the secondary draw either even though it benefits me having hunting age kids.

 

[Wallow]

Secondary draw and the reissue process are under the purview of the draw process working group. The regulatory process for enacting recommendations made by the group is not scheduled to begin until August 2024. I’m fairly certain any changes will not occur until 2025 at the earliest. I suspect that emailing the commission about those issues may garner a similar reply.

I was afraid you'd say that. Really appreciate having you on this forum!!!

 

[grasshopper]

well the re-issue process is exposable to automation creating an unfair advantage. So that part for sure needs to be tweaked.

A dude just pulled a desert sheep tag from reissue. No automation interference. Aren't they using captcha to prevent bots?

 

[seeth07]

A dude just pulled a desert sheep tag from reissue. No automation interference. Aren't they using captcha to prevent bots?

The captcha only works if it pulls the "are you human" card by making you "select all images with a car". From my experience, that hardly ever happens and just wants you to check the box to verify you are human which is super easy to do with automation. If it does, the user can verify the images and then restart the bot clicking faster than a human can.