Caution Warning: Racism #huntingwhileblack

[Panda Bear]

Harley, Ben Lamb, Vikingsguy----she is wearing the proper coat is all I can tell you about that picture

oh and Mr lamb, thank you. for the music clip

one of you guys should know the answer : Is this the same guy that April says her husband liked ? I remember it had faster horses and younger women in the song, but can not remember the title ?

 

[Vidimus]

Whenever I hear folks pressing the view that there is no racism left, and what we hear about is just made up for political advantage, I think of a classic scene in Mississippi Burning where the mayor says to the press, "And I'm here to tell ya, our nigras were happy till those beatnik college kids came down here stirrin' things up. Before that, there wasn't anybody complainin'.

I mean at this point I have to just assume that you are taking what I'm saying in bad faith. Saying that racists have no political power in the US is not equivalent to saying there is no racism. If you don't understand that nuance then I don't know what to tell you.

Lots of people mistake racism as motivation for some of the things that have happened when its all easily explained through greed instead. Hurst is responsible to driving anti marijuana sentiment in the US, and he did so to protect his newspaper industry. So when you want to attack racism as the driving force in that case, you potentially miss the target completely and no matter how much you blame racism, nothing gets better because you completely overlook the underlying cause. Same thing with the Pharma lobby. Their motivation is greed, not racism for classifying MJ as Schedule 1. Much of whats attributed to "systemic racism" can equally be attributed to greed and completely ignoring that likely means you miss out on real solutions. Take this specific case for instance. Mr. Music Man likely grew up in a poor environment, with bad education and low socioeconomic standing. Is the solution posting online that racism bad and calling anyone with a reasoned opinion based on real data "fringe"? Or is it promoting educational and employment opportunities to help lower socioeconomic classes of any color rise up so they begin to feel more self worth and community with their fellow man? There is a reason why racist attitudes and low socioeconomic standing are linked. This idea that the only way to combat racism is by shaming racists is such a superficial approach to the problem and seems mostly motivated by the desire for some to feel good about themselves.

Anyways back to escouting, I've articulated what I think and those who look for things in bad faith will always find it.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I mean at this point I have to just assume that you are taking what I'm saying in bad faith. Saying that racists have no political power in the US is not equivalent to saying there is no racism. If you don't understand that nuance then I don't know what to tell you.

Lots of people mistake racism as motivation for some of the things that have happened when its all easily explained through greed instead. Hurst is responsible to driving anti marijuana sentiment in the US, and he did so to protect his newspaper industry. So when you want to attack racism as the driving force in that case, you potentially miss the target completely and no matter how much you blame racism, nothing gets better because you completely overlook the underlying cause. Same thing with the Pharma lobby. Their motivation is greed, not racism for classifying MJ as Schedule 1. Much of whats attributed to "systemic racism" can equally be attributed to greed and completely ignoring that likely means you miss out on real solutions. Take this specific case for instance. Mr. Music Man likely grew up in a poor environment, with bad education and low socioeconomic standing. Is the solution posting online that racism bad and calling anyone with a reasoned opinion based on real data "fringe"? Or is it promoting educational and employment opportunities to help lower socioeconomic classes of any color rise up so they begin to feel more self worth and community with their fellow man? There is a reason why racist attitudes and low socioeconomic standing are linked. This idea that the only way to combat racism is by shaming racists is such a superficial approach to the problem and seems mostly motivated by the desire for some to feel good about themselves.

Anyways back to escouting, I've articulated what I think and those who look for things in bad faith will always find it.

The bolded part is really important. It's true to a great extent, but I think you also need to look at where people were encouraged to settle when the transformation from rural to urban economics was brought about, as well as how this plays out in poor rural white communities as well.

That town hall I linked too talks a lot to the very real issue that Vidimus brings up. I like seeing that intersection play out - as I think there's a lot of commonality in the solutions and if we're honest, in how we diagnose those issues relative to systemic racism versus greed.

 

[Addicting]

Really surprised this hasn’t been locked yet.

 

[kylemcintyre67]

Talk about bad faith, you are using the prohibition of cannabis as an example of greed while glossing over the overtly racist messaging and actions used to achieve that goal. You further ignore the explicitly racist follow on legislation that was created decades after the initial prohibition was enacted, legislation that was specifically created to target people of color. Of course greed is an element, but this fantasy world you live in where racism only exists in the minds of poor uneducated folk is absurd.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Northern Idaho has enough issues that I can believe this video
As a white guy I have had a few issues with idiots as is.
It would be hard to not let idiots get to you if they seek you out because of how you look.

 

[Vidimus]

The bolded part is really important. It's true to a great extent, but I think you also need to look at where people were encouraged to settle when the transformation from rural to urban economics was brought about, as well as how this plays out in poor rural white communities as well.

That town hall I linked too talks a lot to the very real issue that Vidimus brings up. I like seeing that intersection play out - as I think there's a lot of commonality in the solutions and if we're honest, in how we diagnose those issues relative to systemic racism versus greed.

Yes you might be referring to redlining I think? Things like that pose a real problem that needs to be carefully looked at, and solutions that need to be real and not political stunts. In LA, they legislated homes be built for homeless which sounds great but has been plagued with corruption and inefficiency from day one. Way behind schedule and and each apartment built for the homeless is estimated to cost over $500k. And all this waste and corruption doesn't even address any underlying issue of why there are so many homeless. Its just a stunt so politicians can say "see we care!" and if it doesnt work whatever, its no skin off their nose. Some thing with Welfare, has it ever served to lift someone out of poverty? It was just supposed to be a social safety net to help people get back on their feet but is that what it actually does? I'm inclined to agree with the "welfare trap" idea instead. But you can't say that without being accused of hating minorities. I don't like how the welfare system operates because I think we can do better, not because I'm a racist. But its hard to even get to that point because there are ignorant people just waiting and hoping they'll be the first to jump on the next call out.

Its why I don't like these threads though. It becomes an Olympic sport to be outraged, and its nearly impossible to have a serious discussion. Although I'm happy to say that the hunttalk community in general is less vicious and more inclined to real discussion than most online forums.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I mean at this point I have to just assume that you are taking what I'm saying in bad faith. Saying that racists have no political power in the US is not equivalent to saying there is no racism. If you don't understand that nuance then I don't know what to tell you.

First, I did not tag you in that post for a reason, I was commenting more broadly. And, I am plenty capable of understanding nuance but thank you for your concern.

But let's be clear, you have said in your own words all kinds of things that suggest you lack empathy for the experience of millions of others who do not share your viewpoint. For example:

• Equating racism in the US with " local vs nonres bigotry . . . rich vs poor bigotry . . . hunter vs non hunter bigotry."
  
  
• "It's all fake division anyways"
  
  
• "There is zero political or social influence from racists in America."
  
  
• "WE have to do better" is the toxic racist idea"
  
  
• "SPLC [is] acting . . . as a hate group themselves"

And you seemingly reject the direct personal "testimony" of other HTers on this thread (and others) where they have experienced the very racism you suggest is rare, fake, or unimportant.

As for your repeated statements that racists have no political or social power in the US, they are at best naive. If you are referring to a few crazy white supremacists in ID, then you may be right, but you have never suggested that narrow of a statement. But read as repeated offered by you, the "southern strategy" of Nixon, the "tough on crime strategies of Clinton and Biden", Trump's racial rhetoric, residual implications of redlining, defunding public schools in the south, etc, etc are just a few of many examples that do not jive with your narrative.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Yes you might be referring to redlining I think? Things like that pose a real problem that needs to be carefully looked at, and solutions that need to be real and not political stunts. In LA, they legislated homes be built for homeless which sounds great but has been plagued with corruption and inefficiency from day one. Way behind schedule and and each apartment built for the homeless is estimated to cost over $500k. And all this waste and corruption doesn't even address any underlying issue of why there are so many homeless. Its just a stunt so politicians can say "see we care!" and if it doesnt work whatever, its no skin off their nose. Some thing with Welfare, has it ever served to lift someone out of poverty? It was just supposed to be a social safety net to help people get back on their feet but is that what it actually does? I'm inclined to agree with the "welfare trap" idea instead. But you can't say that without being accused of hating minorities. I don't like how the welfare system operates because I think we can do better, not because I'm a racist. But its hard to even get to that point because there are ignorant people just waiting and hoping they'll be the first to jump on the next call out.

I like this line of discussion. Part of the reason I have been pushing back on some of your other comments is that they suggest that there is nothing of concern to be looked into - that it is all a political ruse. Too often (not talking about you in particular) these days various sides have reverted to simple denial of a problem rather than acknowledging there is something amiss and moving to find the right solutions. And that is where I believe reasonable people can and should have a vigorous discussion. The fact that there are major disparities in economics, education, criminal justice etc related to Black Americans and that at least some part of it is a residue of past racial inequality seems too obvious to seriously debated, but what to do about it - that is fertile ground.

I am a big fan of Thomas Sowell (a Black American economics professor), and in some of his work, he showed that the Great Societies programs caused great harm to Black American communities regardless of the good intentions of those programs.

I am not sure anyone has a magic bullet for correcting for multi-generational poverty and the problems that come with it, but I do very much worry that middle-class white Americans too readily chalk it up to "not my problem" or "make stupid choices win stupid prizes" types conclusions. Here we do have to do better.

 

[Vidimus]

I like this line of discussion. Part of the reason I have been pushing back on some of your other comments is that they suggest that there is nothing of concern to be looked into - that it is all a political ruse. Too often (not talking about you in particular) these days various sides have reverted to simple denial of a problem rather than acknowledging there is something amiss and moving to find the right solutions. And that is where I believe reasonable people can and should have a vigorous discussion. The fact that there are major disparities in economics, education, criminal justice etc related to Black Americans and that at least some part of it is a residue of past racial inequality seems too obvious to seriously debated, but what to do about it - that is fertile ground.

I am a big fan of Thomas Sowell (a Black American economics professor), and in some of his work, he showed that the Great Societies programs caused great harm to Black American communities regardless of the good intentions of those programs.

I am not sure anyone has a magic bullet for correcting for multi-generational poverty and the problems that come with it, but I do very much worry that middle-class white Americans too readily chalk it up to "not my problem" or "make stupid choices win stupid prizes" types conclusions. Here we do have to do better.

Yes I am aware, you've been interpreting the worst possible intent in everything I say lol. But if you're a fan of Thomas Sowell then all is good in my book, the man is a genius

 

[VikingsGuy]

worst possible intent in everything I say lol.

oh, it could have been worse

 

[VikingsGuy]

Thomas Sowell. . . the man is a genius

Deleting due to brain fart.

 

[Bigjay73]

Harley, Ben Lamb, Vikingsguy----she is wearing the proper coat is all I can tell you about that picture

oh and Mr lamb, thank you. for the music clip

one of you guys should know the answer : Is this the same guy that April says her husband liked ? I remember it had faster horses and younger women in the song, but can not remember the title ?

Nope, that was Tom T Hall. Great song

 

[Vidimus]

A HUGE lose when he passed. Was a very sad day.

WHAT?! I'm pretty sure he's still alive.. according to wikipedia he's alive. I really hope you're wrong, I know he retired a few years ago but thought I'd seen stuff from him since then. His book Basic Economics is required reading and should be a textbook.

 

[VikingsGuy]

WHAT?! I'm pretty sure he's still alive.. according to wikipedia he's alive. I really hope you're wrong, I know he retired a few years ago but thought I'd seen stuff from him since then. His book Basic Economics is required reading and should be a textbook.

You are right, I must have been thinking about his retirement

 

[WBouldin]

Radical Idea: Just be a good F***** person.

No one person is going to change what issues exist, but what you can control is who you are on a daily basis during the many interactions you may or may not have with people of a different socioeconomic status, race, culture, political opinion. If you don't interact with different folks, I would suggest you try.

Just as ignorant as some are accused of being on this and many other platforms, are those who accuse them of such ignorance based on a very small set of facts/circumstances.

The issues that exist in our world wont be solved by a bunch of millionaires wearing a patch (who ironically are proof those from poor/ethnic backgrounds can make it in this country) nor will it be solved by pretending it doesn't exist (the whole issue in the first place). It will be solved by people treating eachother as human beings first and everything else second.

 

[VikingsGuy]

His book Basic Economics is required reading and should be a textbook.

A little dry but rock solid. I really liked the Conflict of Vision trilogy.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Radical Idea: Just be a good F***** person.

No one person is going to change what issues exist, but what you can control is who you are on a daily basis during the many interactions you may or may not have with people of a different socioeconomic status, race, culture, political opinion. If you don't interact with different folks, I would suggest you try.

Just as ignorant as some are accused of being on this and many other platforms, are those who accuse them of such ignorance based on a very small set of facts/circumstances.

The issues that exist in our world wont be solved by a bunch of millionaires wearing a patch (who ironically are proof those from poor/ethnic backgrounds can make it in this country) nor will it be solved by pretending it doesn't exist (the whole issue in the first place). It will be solved by people treating eachother as human beings first and everything else second.

I agree, and would add it will take more than passive niceness. We should feel compelled to actually help others from time to time. Part of our overall social decay has been a move towards, "but I am nice and didn't hurt anyone so I have done my part" thinking. Of course, the first step is to do no harm, but the next step is to actually do something to help others.

 

[jvanhoy]

Really surprised this hasn’t been locked yet.

Hey that probably means the boss is out on a good hunt. Like the rest of us should be.

 

[Elkmagnet]

.

As for your repeated statements that racists have no political or social power in the US, they are at best naive. If you are referring to a few crazy white supremacists in ID, then you may be right, but you have never suggested that narrow of a statement.

Idaho extremists are entrenched in Idaho politics. There is currently petitions to recall at least 3 officials for ties with extremists groups.

Republican leaders in Idaho have ties to a rising militia, extremist movement

BOISE — Militia groups and extremist ideologies are slinking from the political fringe onto the ballot in Idaho, where far-right groups have used the coronavirus pandemic and protests for racial

www.idahostatejournal.com