Cattle Grazing National Forest

[Lyfter1013]

Wasn’t sure what section to post this in but figured this would be as good as any.

Im wondering is it possible to view permits for a certain area for cattle grazing and get info before a hunt? The reason is last year I found an area that held elk and there was no cattle. I went back this year and there was more cattle than I’ve ever seen on national forest land and they were literally all over the area I was in.. I seen no elk sign this year in these areas and there was next to no feed compared to the opposite side of the road where the cattle were not at and I ended up finding elk. I know there’s a ton of factors and this might of been a coincidence, but I was wondering if there is any way to check if cattle will be in the area before you arrive for the hunt? This was in Idaho if that matters.

 

[kwyeewyk]

The best way to be sure is to get in contact with FS (or BLM), ask for a range management specialist, and find out what the planned rotations are for that specific allotment. A properly managed allotment normally uses rotational grazing and different pastures get used different times each year depending on the rotation. Sometimes you can find the allotment management plan, but still better to ask in person because sometimes the rotations are adjusted based on ground conditions.

 

[Lyfter1013]

The best way to be sure is to get in contact with FS (or BLM), ask for a range management specialist, and find out what the planned rotations are for that specific allotment. A properly managed allotment normally uses rotational grazing and different pastures get used different times each year depending on the rotation. Sometimes you can find the allotment management plan, but still better to ask in person because sometimes the rotations are adjusted based on ground conditions.

Thanks for the info. Wondering if anyone else ran into this this year, it was ridiculous the number of cattle that were in the area I was hunting. I’ve been in areas before that I thought was overrun with cattle
But this was ridiculous.

 

[2rocky]

Thanks for the info. Wondering if anyone else ran into this this year, it was ridiculous the number of cattle that were in the area I was hunting. I’ve been in areas before that I thought was overrun with cattle
But this was ridiculous.

Grazing management today recommends concentrating cattle for short periods of time and moving them to new pastures for a longer rest period for the grasses. If you encountered cattle in large groups during hunting season it's likely they were gathering them to ship calves and move off the forest. Many ranchers want to do that before rifle hunting season, and believe me they all know when that is.

I always like talking to ranchers and cowboys in the summer and asking them when they ship off the forest. You find the shipping pens and figure that's where the majority of the action is going to be. Often it is near good roads, and cattle may trail out of the wilderness via major trailheads.

In the Valle Vidal during August the grazing association was changing pastures. I still saw elk by the hundreds. By Oct 1 most cattle had been shipped home. They don't want to get stuck in snow trying to gather cattle. High mountain meadows might not get grazed until August or early September. By the end of the month they are pushing them down to lower country.

 

[Wildabeest]

I had similar experience with two sections of state land I hunt in MT. One had cattle on it throughout the summer, and very little elk sign come fall. The other never has cattle on it and was covered up in sign. They are at the same elevation, 6 miles apart. So I think the cattle definitely tend to push out the elk.

Also, the “plan” doesn’t mean that’s exactly where the cattle will be. I have property adjacent to the state land, and the rancher didn’t bother to check the fence before putting his cattle out. There’s numerous breaches in the fence, so the cattle were actually grazing on private lands including mine.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Your wasting your time complaining about it. I can tell you that for free....

 

[Lyfter1013]

Grazing management today recommends concentrating cattle for short periods of time and moving them to new pastures for a longer rest period for the grasses. If you encountered cattle in large groups during hunting season it's likely they were gathering them to ship calves and move off the forest. Many ranchers want to do that before rifle hunting season, and believe me they all know when that is.

I always like talking to ranchers and cowboys in the summer and asking them when they ship off the forest. You find the shipping pens and figure that's where the majority of the action is going to be. Often it is near good roads, and cattle may trail out of the wilderness via major trailheads.

In the Valle Vidal during August the grazing association was changing pastures. I still saw elk by the hundreds. By Oct 1 most cattle had been shipped home. They don't want to get stuck in snow trying to gather cattle. High mountain meadows might not get grazed until August or early September. By the end of the month they are pushing them down to lower country.

I’m not sure what is normal for the area because it was only my 2nd time in the area. But it wasn’t just one small area with one big group it seemed like there were big groups everywhere we went in the area. My cousin has been to the area more times than I have and he was shocked as well.

 

[Lyfter1013]

Your wasting your time complaining about it. I can tell you that for free....

I asked a simple question on how to go about finding info before I arrive for a hunt to plan ahead, and gave an example of what happened not sure where you get I’m complaining.

 

[Oak]

Im wondering is it possible to view permits for a certain area for cattle grazing and get info before a hunt?

I and a couple of others are working on that...

 

[Lyfter1013]

I and a couple of others are working on that...

Glad to hear this is being worked on, do you plan on posting this info or how would someone get this?

 

[Oak]

Glad to hear this is being worked on, do you plan on posting this info or how would someone get this?

Absolutely. It does me no good if people can't access it. As mentioned above, it will be general information. Grazing timing can be adjusted a bit from year to year depending on conditions.

 

[Sytes]

There’s numerous breaches in the fence, so the cattle were actually grazing on private lands including mine.

Place your AU grazing for the monthly $ value at 1k x's that of BLM and you might find mended fencing... Meh, free grazers. Nevermind...

 

[Schaaf]

I and a couple of others are working on that...

Certainly that information would be subject to a FOIA request, no?

 

[Oak]

Certainly that information would be subject to a FOIA request, no?

Sure, and in most cases probably wouldn't take more than an inquiry with the local office. But what if you are planning a hunt from another state? What if Lyfter1013 was standing in the elk woods wondering if the herd of cattle in front of him was supposed to be there, and he was able to open the [insert your favorite hunting mapping company] app on his phone and click the grazing layer to see details from the grazing permit and contact information for the land management agency? That would be pretty cool.

 

[Nameless Range]

Grazing allotments on USFS - with allotment name,acres, and status, as well as what is grazing on there and who approved it.

EDW/EDW_RangeAllotment_01 (MapServer)

apps.fs.usda.gov

Is this not what folk are looking for?

 

[Oak]

Grazing allotments on USFS - with allotment name,acres, and status, as well as what is grazing on there and who approved it.

EDW/EDW_RangeAllotment_01 (MapServer)

apps.fs.usda.gov

Is this not what folk are looking for?

Yes, but unless I'm doing something incorrectly, the online map viewer is not very user-friendly. It also doesn't include BLM allotments (I know we have another link for those).

 

[Schaaf]

Sure, and in most cases probably wouldn't take more than an inquiry with the local office. But what if you are planning a hunt from another state? What if Lyfter1013 was standing in the elk woods wondering if the herd of cattle in front of him was supposed to be there, and he was able to open the [insert your favorite hunting mapping company] app on his phone and click the grazing layer to see details from the grazing permit and contact information for the land management agency? That would be pretty cool.

now we're talking

 

[Schaaf]

Grazing allotments on USFS - with allotment name,acres, and status, as well as what is grazing on there and who approved it.

EDW/EDW_RangeAllotment_01 (MapServer)

apps.fs.usda.gov

Is this not what folk are looking for?

There is no information available for those allotments is there? I see the map viewer but I'm just making sure you aren't able to pull up dates or information about the lease.

 

[Nameless Range]

There is no information available for those allotments is there? I see the map viewer but I'm just making sure you aren't able to pull up dates or information about the lease.

This is just a viewer for the map service endpoint, so it is clunky, but you can click on the attribute table in the table of contents, and this will reveal all the attributes for each allotment. Then you can click on an allotment, and by choosing the three lines at the upper right of the attribute table, show only the attributes associated with the allotment of your interest.



No doubt this is clunky, but there are many ways to interface with the data in a more advanced manner if one had GIS software or an ArcGIS Online account. I'm aware most folks do not.

There's also one for different Range Pastures.

https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.fs.usda.gov%2Farcx%2Frest%2Fservices%2FEDW%2FEDW_RangePasture_01%2FMapServer&source=sd

It could be a useful addition to different hunting apps should those apps decide to add em in.

 

[Oak]

Thanks. I was struggling to find the attributes interface.