Domestic Livestock in the Bighorn National Forest

[antlerradar]

As stated here, there are piles of evidence that shows private leases can be very advantageous and a benefit. We have seen it ourselves. Our pregnancy rates are better, the calf weight is heavier, the health of the mother cow is better on private leases compared to forest range. It’s just as antlerradar has stated. The problem is finding private ground to run on in the summer. Unfortunately, they are not that readily available in the west, especially if you want to move all cattle off public and onto private. It simply isn’t possible. If it was, we would do it in a heart beat.

I have a half section of BLM lease that is so rough and rugged that the BLM rates it at only 15 AUM's. Still at only 20 dollars a year, I over pay. The BLM is a mile and a 1000 feet of elevation change from the nearest water. I would be surprised if we have had five cows on that BLM in my lifetime.

 

[Perlodid]

You should go through Lamar valley right now. Looks like scorched earth and buffalo already moving in to the blacktail.

Yeah that seems dramatically different from what I have seen, to say the least. Looks pretty terrible. Maybe what I have seen is only true at low/moderate densities or in different systems.

 

[kwyeewyk]

I took tons of photos and have turned them in to the forest headquarters. I'd post them here but some of you probably can't handle the truth

Post them up, we can handle it.

First step in a proper assessment is to determine the soil based ecological site and any pertinent management history. You can't do a proper assessment based on photos, but you can get a general idea of relative use level. From the only photos posted in this thread so far I'm not seeing what is being described. Would like to see more photos please, enlighten us.

 

[BearLakeHunter]

Post them up, we can handle it.

First step in a proper assessment is to determine the soil based ecological site and any pertinent management history. You can't do a proper assessment based on photos, but you can get a general idea of relative use level. From the only photos posted in this thread so far I'm not seeing what is being described. Would like to see more photos please, enlighten us.

Yes, please post the pics.

 

[buckbull]

you obviously don't know what you were looking at. the droughted out stubs of grass pounded flat didn't jump out at you? But you sure were correct with the pic of cattle in the riparian zone. The rancher doesn't know just a bit about grazing, he is taking advantage of the system and the obvious look the other way from the national forest authorities

Welcome to hunttalk. Pics are worth a thousand words, post them up please. Ive hunted the bighorns in the past, would be interesting to see the results of over grazing.

 

[Bighorner]

Some of the responses to this thread are bizarre. We just got back from a 10 day hunting trip in the Big Horn National Forest and indeed, as the OP states, the overgrazing of livestock is very pronounced with drought burned grasses nubbed to the dirt and riparian areas of streams flattened by cows. Cattle were everywhere yet some of you internet wizards want to go off 2-5 year old aerial images to try to make the OP out to be a fraud? The North Fork of the Tongue River was mentioned, cows were all over the place from Burgess Jct to Bald Mtn and that includes walking straight up and down the creek. Fishing was horrible and it's like there's no trout in that water. For all you online experts that haven't been there to see the damage, get out of your mom's basement, cubicle whatever and go the the Big Horns yourselves. Or, keep on being the internet big man and poke holes at the ones who are actually out in the field. I took tons of photos and have turned them in to the forest headquarters. I'd post them here but some of you probably can't handle the truth - - -another thing to keep in mind, for every 1,400 lb cow and her 500 lb calf at side, the rancher is paying a grazing fee of 4.5 cents per day. For every 100 cow-calf pairs, the monthly bill is $135. Yea, it was sure worth it to the many users of the National forest to have the North Tongue blue ribbon fishery trampled down and covered with cow pies for the princely sum of a hundred and thirty five bucks a month

How did you guys do hunting?

 

[NR_Hunter]

I will be out there towards the end of this month. I will settle this once and for all.

 

[BigHornRam]

I will be out there towards the end of this month. I will settle this once and for all.

Probably be butt deep in snow by then.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I'd post them there but some of you probably can't handle the truth

If what youre telling is the truth - its important that it gets seen.

Especially considering how the threads gone for OP.

 

[Dave N]

$5 says he doesn't come back.

 

[BigHornRam]

I will be out there towards the end of this month. I will settle this once and for all.

 

[WildWill]

Some of the responses to this thread are bizarre.

 

[WildWill]

If what youre telling is the truth - its important that it gets seen.

Especially considering how the threads gone for OP.

I have a feeling that is @birdseye burner account. Focusing on Google dates, ignoring/dismissing others photos, while claiming to have photos to prove their side that then don't get posted. There's a lot of public land poorly managed and overgrazed and maybe the tongue is as well. Last time I was there was 21 so I certainly can't speak to how it is today. But the way he went about it
was bizarre and IMO a detriment to his cause.

 

[TheTone]

$5 says he doesn't come back.

I want him to; was hoping to send him a PM regarding the area

 

[BigHornRam]

I have a feeling that is @birdseye burner account. Focusing on Google dates, ignoring/dismissing others photos, while claiming to have photos to prove their side that then don't get posted. There's a lot of public land poorly managed and overgrazed and maybe the tongue is as well. Last time I was there was 21 so I certainly can't speak to how it is today. But the way he went about it
was bizarre and IMO a detriment to his cause.

Maybe Dan and the OP are one in the same?

 

[NR_Hunter]

Probably be butt deep in snow by then.

NOOO! I had dreams of swinging streamers up there yet this fall.

Also, if all the deer hunters are down low that could make chukar hunting very wack for me. I gotta check the season dates again smh. Idk what I’m gonna do with my life this fall.

 

[belshawelk]

Glad I run cattle on my property. Without cattle it is overgrown and fire hazard. Cattle keep it managed. Elk dont care about cattle. Wild horses are a different conversation about damage and other problems. Maybe that’s why God didn’t give horses a split hooves.

 

[antlerradar]

But the way he went about it
was bizarre and IMO a detriment to his cause.

My biggest issue is the way he went after the forest employees. As a rancher my give a S--- level for what he thinks of me is about zero. I do feel for the range personnel, they take incoming from both sides and to suggest that they do not care is just not true. From the looks of the pictures, they do care.

 

[Straight Arrow]

For over 150 years ranchers have been grazing sheep and cattle across the beautiful meadows of the spine and slopes of the Big Horn Mountains and that ecosystem has flourished. For this neophyte, wannabe range management critic to show up briefly and criticize those who provide proper and sustaining oversight is laughable ... and in light of seven page of thread so far ... argumentative as well.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Think its a burner or a troll. If it wasnt there'd have been pics by now.