Bullet selection for elk/mule deer combo hunt

[mnbearbaiter]

Last year a bud and I both hunted CO using Fed Premium Trophy Copper BT 180gr. I had a 30-06 and he a 300wsm. I drew a deer tag and shot a young buck at approx 130yds. Bullet hit square in lung on entrance side and because deer was quartering away it blew out far side shoulder like butter and the deer dropped. Deer lived for what seemed like an eternity but was probably less than 5min. Way longer than I expected even from a one lung shot. Bud shot an elk at same distance and his elk crumbled never to regain its footing and passed in a minute or so. His shot was a high double lung shot that no doubt involved some hydrostatic shock to the spine. I've read copper bullets are way tougher than most lead bullets and I have a ton of the 180 bullets I used. They shoot lights out in my rifle and don't wanna change at all but we are going to do a combo hunt this year based on last years findings. I used 180gr Rem Corelokt PSP to get on paper and they shot excellent for $20/box ammo, although the higher BC of the copper bullet had it hitting about 2" higher at 200yds than the corelokt did. Do I stick with the copper or use the corelokts? Any more insight on the Trophy Coppers or experiences with them would be great!!!

 

[Gunner46]

Just my $0.02. You were using the same bullet, but in different cartridges and at different animals. The 30/06 is a bit slower than the 300 and a deer is smaller & not as tough as an elk. The 300 probably mushroomed more and also delivered more shock. The double lung didn't hurt either.

The change in POI is probably more a simple matter of brand change than BC, especially at only 200 yds.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

I agree 100% the 300 is pushing the bullet 260fps faster and with it hitting a stouter animal it certainly mushroomed better I'm sure. We did gutless method to both animals as we packed them out on our backs so didn't to an autopsy to check out damage to vitals

 

[Apparition]

Id stick with the Trophy Copper myself, while I have no doubts about the ability of the corelokt to kill an elk, all things being considered, should you shoot an elk and have to turn tail and run, the Trophy Copper will drive through to the vitals on a texas heart shot more consistently than a corelokt.

 

[sagebrush]

Shoot what your rifle likes. The Barnes bullets will work just fine on both elk and deer.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

Well 'sage they in theory aren't Barnes as Federal loads their own bullets now but I'm sure they cut open a few of the Barnes TTSX that they used to carry to design their Trophy Copper?

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

There is a theory that with an all copper bullet you should shot a lighter weight that with a lead bullet, as the all coppers expand slower. I would recommend dropping down to the 165 or 150 range in the trophy copper.

 

[nrpate05]

Copper all the way!

 

[Deleted member 20812]

A high, one lung shot is not nearly as fatal as most folks would like to believe. If you are breaking the scapula, you are most likely hitting too high to really be in the boiler room. Not the end of the world rifle hunting, as a deer or elk with a broken shoulder isn't going far. Just put another one in them.

If you want the true, one step and pile up kills you should be shooting them lower, right in the "<" made by the scapula and humerus. Once I started shooting animals there, many of them died within two steps of impact.

I'm a fan of all copper bullets myself.

 

[Pinecricker]

A high, one lung shot is not nearly as fatal as most folks would like to believe. If you are breaking the scapula, you are most likely hitting too high to really be in the boiler room. Not the end of the world rifle hunting, as a deer or elk with a broken shoulder isn't going far. Just put another one in them.

If you want the true, one step and pile up kills you should be shooting them lower, right in the "<" made by the scapula and humerus. Once I started shooting animals there, many of them died within two steps of impact.

I'm a fan of all copper bullets myself.

Good advice. I hit a young 6x6 bull this year with my .300 Win. Mag. with a 180 grain Nosler Accubond. I hit him twice in the lungs, both shots hit within an inch of each other, but I was shooting downhill so my shots hit a little higher up on the lungs (I didn't have much time to judge yardage as he was moving through thick timber and brush).

He stood there for a good minute before he finally dropped. I was working my way down the hill through the brush towards him when I heard a big thud when he hit the ground. When I got to him he was still alive trying to lift his head up, with a sucking chest wound, spewing out frothy red blood.

There was nothing but red jelly left of his lungs when I gutted him, but I was very surprised that he was still able to move uphill a little ways, and that he kept standing as long as he did after being hit. A lower placed shot in the vitals is definitely more effective at putting them down, especially if you hit the heart.

 

[1_pointer]

I'd keep shooting the more accurate bullet. From your accounting, it was a one lung hit. Bullet placement was not optimal and was a bigger contributor, IMO, to the deer staying on its feet more so than the type of bullet.

Couple of other things:
-Sample of one does not a trend make. Shoot a few more critters then make a decision.
-BC difference is not causing a 2" POI difference at 200yds.

 

[mnbearbaiter]

Deer wasn't on it's feet. Shot put him down instantly. I agree BC probably had nothing to do with POI difference. Now minus a chrony I wonder if theorem aren't as fast as they print on pkg and that could be reason? Either way gun lives the coppers and I'll stick with em. I wish I did have 100 of the 165 sitting around instead of the 180. Oh well I do have a moose hunt planned as well

 

[Gr8bawana]

Both animals down and recovered so why fix what aint broke? They shoot well in your rifle so why change.
It's hard to go wrong with you rifle/bullet combination.

 

[MKotur325]

If you are planing a hunt for both Deer and Elk, I would plan your bullet choice for the tougher critter. That being said, the .30-06 isn't a screaming fast round, especially with a 180gr Slug. Most of your controlled expanding, or bonded slugs will do just fine for Elk; and if it will kill an elk, it'll kill a Mule Deer. If it were up to me, I'd probably evaluate some other options, Maybe a 180gr Nosler Partition or Accubond, or A Federal Trophy Bonded tip. Shoot the more accurate bullet. 2" of drop at 200 yds is not due to changes in B.C. It may be as simple as the loads just flat shoot to different places, or a change in the shooting position. My .325 WSM shoots about 4" different at 100yds with and without a bi-pod. Little things can make a ton of difference in how rifles shoot. There's nothing wrong with shooting a 180gr slug out of a .30-06. I shoot 180gr Nosler Partitions out of my .308Win, and wouldn't go lighter if you paid me to.

My Dad shot a raghorn Elk a few years back, First shot took the back of one lung and the liver. The bull popped into the timber after that without presenting a second shot. He finished the bull 6 hours later in heavy timber. Shot placement will pay off in spades. Western critters can be quite hardy. Many of us feel to keep shooting as long as they keep their feet. It is hard to shoot an animal too far forward, and can be easy to shoot too far back. To my mind, it's better to loose a shoulder than to miss a lung.

Long story short, a well built 180gr slug out of a .30 cal rifle sounds like good Elk Medicine to me, Be that a copper slug, a bonded slug, or other premium controlled expanding option; they should serve you just fine.

 

[Gr8bawana]

.
My Dad shot a raghorn Elk a few years back, First shot took the back of one lung and the liver. The bull popped into the timber after that without presenting a second shot. He finished the bull 6 hours later in heavy timber. Shot placement will pay off in spades. Western critters can be quite hardy. Many of us feel to keep shooting as long as they keep their feet. It is hard to shoot an animal too far forward, and can be easy to shoot too far back. To my mind, it's better to loose a shoulder than to miss a lung.

Elk are pretty tough animals. From the few elk hunts I have been on or observed I agree it's not a bad idea to keep shooting til it goes down.
Just my .02 worth.

 

[MKotur325]

Elk are pretty tough animals. From the few elk hunts I have been on or observed I agree it's not a bad idea to keep shooting til it goes down.
Just my .02 worth.

Keep shooting until they are down, and don't be afraid to break shoulders. There's lots of lungs and the heart behind those shoulders...

 

[mnbearbaiter]

Well I got my answer!!! My gun shoots the 180gr Trophy Coppers well under moa. I believe I had a 5 shot group at 200yds under 1.5"? Either way I was damn happy. Especially since I bought 100 rounds of the stuff for $24/box as they were clearly mismarked!!!

 

[hank4elk]

There you go ,you found a round that works in your rifle. Stick with it for both elk and deer.
Your 200 yrd grp is textbook, good to go with confidance load.
Been to this bbq.yrs ago.
I shoot a 165 because it shoots better in my 06 than the 180's.
They drop elk fine.But don't stop til she drops. Tough critters.
I had one go 1/4 mi w 2 rnds in her this year.Hit 2 lungs,one collapsed and a split liver from the shock.Still hopped 2 fences and ended up that far,totally bled out,

 

[mnbearbaiter]

I guess I was just a tad worried that all I've read lately was geared toward dropping down a size in grain weight with standard cartridges when shooting all copper bullets as they're so darn tough and tend not to expand well? My question is what is considered proper expansion with all copper bullets at 0-300yds like my Federal Premium Trophy Copper BT or Barnes TTSX? My buds exit wound looked to be about the size of a nickel at most and my 06 you couldn't tell because it blew shoulder out on far side which was about a 2" wound which I'm sure was due to bone fragments blowing out and tearing up meat?

 

[Rancho Loco]

If you're shooting broadside deer and elk within 200 yards, blue box federals will work fine.

These critters are harder to find, than to kill.