Bullet Deformation

[BackCountryMulies]

Yes you are correct loose screws.. I'm pretty sure this is not a loose screw issue.. My deepest apologizes to the terminology master.. You seem to be very emotionally attached to your opinions especially the ones someone does not agree with

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Are you crimping the necks?

No, they are not crimped. Just a regular rcbs die set. Also, to answer your former question, yes, its shoots pefectly with undamaged bullets loaded single.

 

[Rancho Loco]

Yes you are correct loose screws.. I'm pretty sure this is not a loose screw issue.. My deepest apologizes to the terminology master.. You seem to be very emotionally attached to your opinions especially the ones someone does not agree with

I just happen to pay more attention to people who seem to know what they're doing. That's probably how we got crossed up.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

The dude in the article Backcountry mulies linked was shooting a littler over 1MOA with pristine bullets and 3 MOA with bullets he hit with a hammer. I have a hard time believing that VAgoat can get nearly 1/2MOA with pristine bullets and it goes to 5MOA because of a tip that was deformed in the mag box.

No way.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

The dude in the article Backcountry mulies linked was shooting a littler over 1MOA with pristine bullets and 3 MOA with bullets he hit with a hammer. I have a hard time believing that VAgoat can get nearly 1/2MOA with pristine bullets and it goes to 5MOA because of a tip that was deformed in the mag box.

No way.

You got me, I made the whole thing up for fun. :W:

All I wanted was some advise on how to remedy dinged up bullets in the magazine and I've been told its my scope, screws, and now I'm a liar on top of it. I really appreciate the legitimate suggestions on how to possibly take care of the issue but being called a liar now takes the cake.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Furthermore, if around 6 inches is so unbeleivable, what would be the expected amount for a gun shooting .65. Would an inch off be acceptable.....maybe two. Would you guys be able to reply to the original question or just debate the legitimacy of a ball park measurement. I don't think that any deviation from an undamaged shell would be acceptable for a gun that shoots pretty darn good. Not great but pretty good. I just wanted some input to see if others found easy or cheap ways of fixing it. I would be happy to include pictures for everyone to also criticize but I can't get my phone to get the to load. Thanks again to all of you that tried to actually help.

 

[belly-deep]

You got me, I made the whole thing up for fun. :W:

All I wanted was some advise on how to remedy dinged up bullets in the magazine and I've been told its my scope, screws, and now I'm a liar on top of it. I really appreciate the legitimate suggestions on how to possibly take care of the issue but being called a liar now takes the cake.

I don't think anyone has called you a liar.

Looking back at my loading notes, seating depth changes have caused a relatively minor variation in group size, but no change in POA, so I tend to agree something else is going on.

Do you change your rate of fire at all when shooting from the magazine? Barrel might be walking as it heats up.

 

[BackCountryMulies]

:hump: Keep me posted on what you find out with making the small adjustments we talked about

 

[Rancho Loco]

You got me, I made the whole thing up for fun. :W:

All I wanted was some advise on how to remedy dinged up bullets in the magazine and I've been told its my scope, screws, and now I'm a liar on top of it. I really appreciate the legitimate suggestions on how to possibly take care of the issue but being called a liar now takes the cake.

He's not calling you a liar. Tips get flattened by recoil all the time. It usually doesn't affect accuracy this drastically, though, unless some dumptruck was pounding on the tips with a hammer. Something else, or a combination of things is the likely culprit.

When accuracy issues suddenly arise, it is common practice to eliminate all the easiest possible causes. Check action screws, scope bases, stock warping. contact, mag binding, etc. Then check your ammo..

This is only as hard as you want to make it.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Sorry to vent a little there so please forgive me. I have nothing but my word to give you that when I have tested the dinged cartridges out thay are almost useless. I accumulate them throughout the season. Its not some of my finer moments but I used to hunt on a farm near D.C. that had kill permits and thats what we did with the help of hunters for the hungry. After a day of deer drives the shell at the bottom of the mag looked like a semi wadcutter. I don't do that anymore.

After my mulie trip this year, I noticed the bottom two shells dinged after I fired twice at my buck.....really only needed one but wasn't taking a chance. I will concede that I have not shot those particular shells but it did remind me of old problems. I can swear on my life that some others were shot and I then deemed all the dinged bullets useles based on some being u as much as 6 inches off. Also as stated before they were all over the place.

Sorry again to blow up at minor criticism, I agree that I was not being called a liar. So JLS please accept my apology.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

You got me, I made the whole thing up for fun. :W:

All I wanted was some advise on how to remedy dinged up bullets in the magazine and I've been told its my scope, screws, and now I'm a liar on top of it. I really appreciate the legitimate suggestions on how to possibly take care of the issue but being called a liar now takes the cake.

I didn't call you a liar. I said that it wasn't going from .5MOA to 5MOA BECAUSE of a deformed tip. My apologies if it came across wrong.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Sorry again to blow up at minor criticism, I agree that I was not being called a liar. So JLS please accept my apology.

No worries bro, see mine above.

My reiteration was not to question the legitimacy of your issue, it was to dispel the notion that it is because of deformed bullet tips.

How much are you cleaning your bore between shots?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Check action screws, mounts, etc.
Single load some factory ammo for a group.
Load a mag full of factory ammo, and shoot for group.

Note results.

Try and look at this analytically without a preconceived notion of what's going on. A couple of years ago I was fighting a rifle that shot like crap compared to what it used to. Same load. I eventually found a crack in the stock near the front action screw. Fixed it and guess what, it shoots lights out again.

It does seem odd to me that it would deform them as much as they are. My .300 mag used to deform them a bit, but never anything of any huge significance and not anywhere near what the dude did with the hammer.

Get some factory soft point ammo and try to duplicate it. Just make sure you're only looking at one variable at a time.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I think what has me baffled and why I got irritated is this. I don't understand how a loose screw, bolt or similar problem would only show up with the deformed bullets and not the good ones? I very rarely have to adjust the scope from season to season. This is not me arguing its me trying to learn something I obviously don't understand.

Also, I will be able to shoot it soon with some factory stuff. I am expecting it to shoot ok and not ding the bullets as this is what it used to do. If that is the case what does that point to? Maybe hot load and weak spring in the mag?

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 20812]

If you shoot some factory soft point ammo, and the bottom rounds shoot just fine then it would point to something uniquely different about your load.

If it were my gun I would do something like this:

Check action screws. Clean it. Shoot a few fouling shots.

Shoot a 4-5 round group of your handloads with new brass, loading individually.
Shoot a 4-5 round group of your handloads with new brass from the magazine.
Shoot a 4-4 round group of your handloads with the old brass, loading individually.
Shoot a 4-5 round group of your handloads with the old brass from the magazine.
Repeat with factory ammo soft points, loading individually and then from the magazine.

Mark the bullets with a sharpie and as you are shooting from the magazine, look at each one prior to firing and note how much the bullet is getting set back.

Edit: If the factory soft points don't deform, you might consider backing off your load. My Speer manual shows you 1 grain over max (COAL tested at 3.24) and my Hogdgon manual shows you 2 grains over max.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

If you shoot some factory soft point ammo, and the bottom rounds shoot just fine then it would point to something uniquely different about your load.

If it were my gun I would do something like this:

Check action screws. Clean it. Shoot a few fouling shots.

Shoot a 4-5 round group of your handloads with new brass, loading individually.
Shoot a 4-5 round group of your handloads with new brass from the magazine.
Shoot a 4-4 round group of your handloads with the old brass, loading individually.
Shoot a 4-5 round group of your handloads with the old brass from the magazine.
Repeat with factory ammo soft points, loading individually and then from the magazine.

Mark the bullets with a sharpie and as you are shooting from the magazine, look at each one prior to firing and note how much the bullet is getting set back.

Edit: If the factory soft points don't deform, you might consider backing off your load. My Speer manual shows you 1 grain over max (COAL tested at 3.24) and my Hogdgon manual shows you 2 grains over max.

Started looking at some of my other manuals and also noted some differences in max loads and C.O.A.L, that is probably playing a part in this as well. Sierra has C.O.A.L at 3.3 and I have been under that, but I'll be honest they look real long to me. I am above max for everybody but barnes, sometimes .5 other by 1. It was a load given to me and I trust it to be safe after many years but again it probably is playing a part. The manuals are one of those photo copied books that cabelas sells.

It will take a while but I will get the testing done and report back. Thanks

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Don't use the Barnes data. Theirs is based on the design of their bullets, which have lower pressures because of the bullet design.