Blue Zones, fact or fiction

[WildWill]

good whole real unprocessed food, community, activity. avoid drugs and wear seat belts. use zinc sunscreen and ease up on the alcohol.

The further down the list the more Ok I became with dying earlier.

 

[MTLabrador]

I'm too lazy, but I wonder how that graph would change if you could exclude the outliers, like drug over-doses.

I also don't want to think about how race or reservations plays into that, because that would clearly make me a racist.

I really don’t know anything about individual counties in the rest of the US, but I know Montana and Wyoming pretty well. In our little microcosm it basically shows where the extreme concentrations of poverty are (and in MT and WY those are the reservations). Unfortunately there’s also a ton of alcohol, meth, and fentanyl that skews the statistics there, but the food situation is also pretty bleak in those areas. The Crow reservation has some of the highest rates of type 2 diabetes anywhere in the US.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I wonder if it is related to eating meat, as they imply, or just not eating processed foods (including processed meats).

The observed correlation is red meat, these communities have far fewer meals with servings of meat.

 

[D_Walt]

View attachment 308983

Seems to be a correlation with areas where you are most likely to hear “Hey y’all, watch this!”

 

[TOGIE]

The observed correlation is red meat, these communities have far fewer meals with servings of meat.

it's a blog, yes. but... stuff to think about

when a vegan sets about his goal of writing a book i'm suspicious of the likelihood of non bias in his "research"

Are The Blue Zones REALLY Plant-Based? — THRIVE NUTRITION

Are the Blue Zones plant-based? Our expert dietitians explore the diets of the world's longest-living people. Get evidence-based nutrition advice. Visit us

www.thrivenutritionmn.com

 

[rtraverdavis]

I really don’t know anything about individual counties in the rest of the US, but I know Montana and Wyoming pretty well. In our little microcosm it basically shows where the extreme concentrations of poverty are (and in MT and WY those are the reservations). Unfortunately there’s also a ton of alcohol, meth, and fentanyl that skews the statistics there, but the food situation is also pretty bleak in those areas. The Crow reservation has some of the highest rates of type 2 diabetes anywhere in the US.

I was going to say, that looks like a map of US poverty to my uneducated eye.

If I had to pick a category besides genetics that I'd imagine would determine someone's longevity, I'd bet it would be stress. The stress of poverty, and all its resultant behaviors (drug and alcohol abuse, poor sleep, fractured homes and dangerous communities, eating shitty, cheap, processed food) has to be monumental.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I'm too lazy, but I wonder how that graph would change if you could exclude the outliers, like drug over-doses.

I also don't want to think about how race or reservations plays into that, because that would clearly make me a racist.

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-publhealth-082619-104231

This article isn't exactly what you are asking but certainly relevant.

Some very interesting data analysis...

 

[Irrelevant]

The stress of poverty, and all its resultant behaviors (drug and alcohol abuse, poor sleep, fractured homes and dangerous communities, eating shitty, cheap, processed food) has to be monumental.

I might question the use of "resultant" above. Does being poor result in those behaviors, or do those behaviors result in being poor?

As I age, I find myself holding other people more accountable for their actions (maybe it has to do with being a parent), but if you're going to consistently make poor choices then don't you deserve to be poor, to have poor health?

Those aren't necessarily answerable questions.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

it's a blog, yes. but... stuff to think about

when a vegan sets about his goal of writing a book i'm suspicious of the likelihood of non bias in his "research"

Are The Blue Zones REALLY Plant-Based? — THRIVE NUTRITION

Are the Blue Zones plant-based? Our expert dietitians explore the diets of the world's longest-living people. Get evidence-based nutrition advice. Visit us

www.thrivenutritionmn.com

Hongkongers do eat a lot of meat but it's mostly Fish, Chicken, and Pork. Not elk and deer which I think is where that tangent was headed.

 

[TOGIE]

I might question the use of "resultant" above. Does being poor result in those behaviors, or do those behaviors result in being poor?

As I age, I find myself holding other people more accountable for their actions (maybe it has to do with being a parent), but if you're going to consistently make poor choices then don't you deserve to be poor, to have poor health?

Those aren't necessarily answerable questions.

i've become to really view that different in the last 3-4 years.

i agree that bad choices lead to a bad life. but when you look at the history of the US - so much racism, so much sexism, so much in a system that was initially designed and still has many latent products of that design to allow certain types of people to play the game with home field advantage and many others to not even be allowed to play the game.

it's a mixed bag, but it's not always the persons fault.

 

[Irrelevant]

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-publhealth-082619-104231

This article isn't exactly what you are asking but certainly relevant.

Some very interesting data analysis...

View attachment 308991

Wow, that wasn't what I expected.

 

[np307]

Red Zone Habits

1. Become a certified forklift operator
2. Mc'dees fo life
3. Red meat is the only food group you need
4. Argue with people on the internet, there is no such thing as caring too much about crossbow hunting
5. Every man is in fact an island, if they step one inch on your property let the lead fly
6. Nicotine
7. The rat race is what makes this country great, stop that liberal talk

McDonald's would be healthier than the gas station food most of the guys I work around eat.

 

[TOGIE]

Hongkongers do eat a lot of meat but it's mostly Fish, Chicken, and Pork. Not elk and deer which I think is where that tangent was headed.

really my point was buettner was no doubt interested in his book focusing on non/low meat lifestyles to support his claims when in fact his claims fall apart when you look at many other cultures with high health and high meat consumption.

it's just another of the many modern data points that fail to support the idea the meat is a primary cause of many poor health conditions. the theory that was resultant from rather loose correlations between meat and all cause mortality or CVD or diabetes to begin with.

 

[rtraverdavis]

I might question the use of "resultant" above. Does being poor result in those behaviors, or do those behaviors result in being poor?

As I age, I find myself holding other people more accountable for their actions (maybe it has to do with being a parent), but if you're going to consistently make poor choices then don't you deserve to be poor, to have poor health?

Those aren't necessarily answerable questions.

Like everything else, I'm sure it's incredibly nuanced. All I know is that I didn't choose a lot of my negative tendencies, but I can damn well choose to take the right action when it comes to acting upon them. This would be more difficult if I were living in a community that collectively fed into my negative tendencies.

 

[MtnElk]

I listened to a podcast, I think Peter Attia's, about this very topic not long ago. His position was more on the nuanced side and in line with your second article posted, but something he did mention was that generally it pays to live an active lifestyle and not be fat - two characteristics of the "Blue Zones".

I wish I could find which podcast it was but a couple other things I remember him talking about was average life expectancy - the mean, not the outliers - and how we are talking about a shorter amount of time compared to other places than we may think. Lastly, something else they spoke about was genetics. There's a lot of evidence out there that genetics is a very large driver of life expectancy, as unpleasant (or pleasant) as that may be to some.

As I eat some 3 day old corned beef hash for lunch, it's fun to think about.

have you read his (Peter Attia) book, Outlive? if not, I strongly recommend you read it. Really great book. About to read it for the second time in 3 months to hammer it home

 

[MtnElk]

yo @MtnElk wanna hit up golden corral after North Fork 50k?

It's funnier because you don't look like you eat there all the time... whereas I feel like am trending in the direction of what a regular looks like. But not for long ha

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

really my point was buettner was no doubt interested in his book focusing on non/low meat lifestyles to support his claims when in fact his claims fall apart when you look at many other cultures with high health and high meat consumption.

it's just another of the many modern data points that fail to support the idea the meat is a primary cause of many poor health conditions. the theory that was resultant from rather loose correlations between meat and all cause mortality or CVD or diabetes to begin with.

Red meat consumption is an issue, but I don’t believe there is scientific evidence for meat in general.

Total speculation and I’m not going to actually research this, but I wonder if it’s as much what you aren’t eating when you consume lots of meat as the meat itself. So not enough fruits, veggies, roughage.

 

[Treeshark]

If I had to pick a category besides genetics that I'd imagine would determine someone's longevity, I'd bet it would be stress.

I really think this is a huge part of it. As I get older, I try to block this from my life more and more.

 

[Nameless Range]

have you read his (Peter Attia) book, Outlive? if not, I strongly recommend you read it. Really great book. About to read it for the second time in 3 months to hammer it home

Yessir. I am a big fan of Attia. He’s data heavy, and anti-hyperbole.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Yessir. I am a big fan of Attia. He’s data heavy, and anti-hyperbole.

View attachment 309001

Looks like he did a Gen surg residency, does he cover how those 5 years for him were basically everything he’s saying not to do .