noharleyyet
Well-known member
BLM, Forest Service and Nevada Ranchers
- Thread starter Grizzley
- Start date
- Status
roadhunter
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2013
- Messages
- 719
Lots of ranchers lost their arse around here during the big storm in October. With the prices you are talking about losing 60,000 head had to hurt.
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle...storm-aid-slow-to-materialize--226955821.html
http://www.tsln.com/news/8441003-113/livestock-bill-losses-farm
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle...storm-aid-slow-to-materialize--226955821.html
http://www.tsln.com/news/8441003-113/livestock-bill-losses-farm
Zach
Well-known member
New Chick Fil A ad?
JoseCuervo
New member
Those are great links, kind of points out how ridiculous Bundy is to fight the Feds. The Congress passes laws to remove the risk of ranching, allowing taxpayers to bailout ranchers who have cows lost in the snow...
Musket Man
New member
I agree. The radical environmental groups have alot of leverage and know how to use it. The people running these groups are making alot of money off all of this. A lot of people donate money to them and they also get EAJ money for their lawsuits against the federal government. I think its more about the money then what they claim to be fighting for.
JoseCuervo
New member
I am good friends with THE best environmental attorney in the West. He is not getting rich fighting to protect My Public Lands for my hunting pleasure. He is doing it because it is the right thing to do, protecting special places from ranchers like Bundy who seek to openly break the law and destroy My Public Lands.
That comment more accurately describes Mr. Bundy.
Cattle grazing does not destroy the land. What is the lawyers name?
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
You are technically correct. Irresponsible cattle grazing destroys the land. When done right, life is grand.
Musket Man
New member
I dont see how Cliven Bundy is making money from his problems with the BLM. Well managed grazing is the best thing for the land. Cows have been a part of these places since before the west was settled and are alot of what brought people wast to begin with.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
Uuuuum, he's getting free grazing?
Musket Man
New member
He doesnt want free grazing. When he stopped paying grazing fees it was in protest of the BLM cutting his allotment by 85%. It was not because he wanted free grazing out of it.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
It started with cheat grass-
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/danoff-burg/invasion_bio/inv_spp_summ/Bromus_tectorum.html
Once the cheat was here the fires it fueled did the hard work of killing the sage/bitter brush and native grasses.
The west will never be the same.
RobG
Well-known member
At $1.35 an AUM he isn't saving much. And eventually his whole herd will be confiscated.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
900cows x $1.35 x 7month x 20years I would take an extra 100k over the next 20 years if the militia doesn't mind?
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
Well, if you figure in what he would have paid in private grazing leases and shipping costs, it looks a little different.
Just guessing Mr. Bundy is sharing some of his best management areas on public land?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhU44IxTmhk
Grizzley
Member
This is link is entertaining but too one sided. If Buzz, Big Fin, Jose, Miller and all the old timers are all on the same side of the issue then the only thing left is to create a new thread that pits them against each other and really start the learning process for all the newcomers! Since Greenhorn hasn't chimed in I am guessing it isn't worth hunting...but I could be wrong again!
RobG
Well-known member
He is getting fined $200 per animal per day.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Good! Now if they can just collect.
This really does need to be in a criminal Court.
This really does need to be in a criminal Court.
Musket Man
New member
In an open letter, Bundy’s neighbor, Kena Lytle Gloeckner, explained why ranchers are supporting Bundy. Her letter, which has been posted on numerous blogs,said:
There have been a lot of people criticizing Clive Bundy because he did not pay his grazing fees for 20 years. The public is also probably wondering why so many other cowboys are supporting Mr. Bundy even though they paid their fees and Clive did not. What you people probably do not realize is that on every rancher’s grazing permit it says the following: “You are authorized to make grazing use of the lands, under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management and covered by this grazing permit, upon your acceptance of the terms and conditions of this grazing permit and payment of grazing fees when due.” The “mandatory” terms and conditions go on to list the allotment, the number and kind of livestock to be grazed, when the permit begins and ends, the number of active or suspended AUMs (animal units per month), etc.
The terms and conditions also list specific requirements such as where salt or mineral supplements can be located, maximum allowable use of forage levels (40% of annual growth), etc., and include a lot more stringent policies that must be adhered to. Every rancher must sign this “contract” agreeing to abide by the TERMS AND CONDITIONS before he or she can make payment. In the early 90s, the BLM went on a frenzy and drastically cut almost every rancher’s permit because of this desert tortoise issue, even though all of us ranchers knew that cow and desert tortoise had co-existed for a hundred+ years. As an example, a family friend had his permit cut by 90%. For those of you who are non-ranchers, that would be equated to getting your paycheck cut 90%. In 1976 there were approximately 52 ranching permittees in this area of Nevada. Presently, there are 3.
Most of these people lost their livelihoods because of the actions of the BLM. Clive Bundy was one of these people who received extremely unfair and unreasonable TERMS AND CONDITIONS. Keep in mind that Mr. Bundy was required to sign this contract before he was allowed to pay. Had Clive signed on the dotted line, he would have, in essence, signed his very livelihood away. And so Mr. Bundy took a stand, not only for himself, but for all of us. He refused to be destroyed by a tyrannical federal entity and to have his American liberties and freedoms taken away.
Also keep in mind that all ranchers financially paid dearly for the forage rights those permits allow – – not rights to the land, but rights to use the forage that grows on that land. Many of these AUMS are water based, meaning that the rancher also has a vested right (state owned, not federal) to the waters that adjoin the lands and allow the livestock to drink. These water rights were also purchased at a great price. If a rancher cannot show beneficial use of the water (he must have the appropriate number of livestock that drinks and uses that water), then he loses that water right. Usually water rights and forage rights go hand in hand.
Contrary to what the BLM is telling you, they NEVER compensate a rancher for the AUMs they take away. Most times, they tell ranchers that their AUMS are “suspended,” but not removed. Unfortunately, my family has thousands of “suspended” AUMs that will probably never be returned. And so, even though these ranchers throughout the course of a hundred years invested thousands(and perhaps millions) of dollars and sacrificed along the way to obtain these rights through purchase from others, at a whim the government can take everything away with the stroke of a pen. This is the very thing that Clive Bundy single handedly took a stand against. Thank you, Clive, from a rancher who considers you a hero.
There have been a lot of people criticizing Clive Bundy because he did not pay his grazing fees for 20 years. The public is also probably wondering why so many other cowboys are supporting Mr. Bundy even though they paid their fees and Clive did not. What you people probably do not realize is that on every rancher’s grazing permit it says the following: “You are authorized to make grazing use of the lands, under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management and covered by this grazing permit, upon your acceptance of the terms and conditions of this grazing permit and payment of grazing fees when due.” The “mandatory” terms and conditions go on to list the allotment, the number and kind of livestock to be grazed, when the permit begins and ends, the number of active or suspended AUMs (animal units per month), etc.
The terms and conditions also list specific requirements such as where salt or mineral supplements can be located, maximum allowable use of forage levels (40% of annual growth), etc., and include a lot more stringent policies that must be adhered to. Every rancher must sign this “contract” agreeing to abide by the TERMS AND CONDITIONS before he or she can make payment. In the early 90s, the BLM went on a frenzy and drastically cut almost every rancher’s permit because of this desert tortoise issue, even though all of us ranchers knew that cow and desert tortoise had co-existed for a hundred+ years. As an example, a family friend had his permit cut by 90%. For those of you who are non-ranchers, that would be equated to getting your paycheck cut 90%. In 1976 there were approximately 52 ranching permittees in this area of Nevada. Presently, there are 3.
Most of these people lost their livelihoods because of the actions of the BLM. Clive Bundy was one of these people who received extremely unfair and unreasonable TERMS AND CONDITIONS. Keep in mind that Mr. Bundy was required to sign this contract before he was allowed to pay. Had Clive signed on the dotted line, he would have, in essence, signed his very livelihood away. And so Mr. Bundy took a stand, not only for himself, but for all of us. He refused to be destroyed by a tyrannical federal entity and to have his American liberties and freedoms taken away.
Also keep in mind that all ranchers financially paid dearly for the forage rights those permits allow – – not rights to the land, but rights to use the forage that grows on that land. Many of these AUMS are water based, meaning that the rancher also has a vested right (state owned, not federal) to the waters that adjoin the lands and allow the livestock to drink. These water rights were also purchased at a great price. If a rancher cannot show beneficial use of the water (he must have the appropriate number of livestock that drinks and uses that water), then he loses that water right. Usually water rights and forage rights go hand in hand.
Contrary to what the BLM is telling you, they NEVER compensate a rancher for the AUMs they take away. Most times, they tell ranchers that their AUMS are “suspended,” but not removed. Unfortunately, my family has thousands of “suspended” AUMs that will probably never be returned. And so, even though these ranchers throughout the course of a hundred years invested thousands(and perhaps millions) of dollars and sacrificed along the way to obtain these rights through purchase from others, at a whim the government can take everything away with the stroke of a pen. This is the very thing that Clive Bundy single handedly took a stand against. Thank you, Clive, from a rancher who considers you a hero.
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