Bill with no sporting reps, three landowners on Commission one vote from passage

[Walkalot]

Simple with gaurenteed tags. They will allocate them to the highest bidders. Mt gets its $300 up front. But when they hand them over to moga or who ever x amount goes to each outfitter. From there it will be an auction. Basically from what i understand. More bs will come from this. Fox in the hen house.

 

[Walkalot]

Erin albus it is a qoute from an outfitter. He will remain anonymous but i think everything he stated is true.

 

[Eric Albus]

WI, your odds will not go "way down" to draw. We have been taking that 39% number since the OSL, then when we have had the big undersells after I161 we still took roughly 39%.
Last year and year before roughly 39%. Your odds will not go down unless there should suddenly be an unpredicted and unprecedented rush on license applications in Mt. The flaw Rod points out in the math is this: It was not figured into the equation that 39% FEWER PPL would be applying for the 39% fewer license. It cancels out, draw odds stay same.

walk, that is purely BS. There is not any way it will become an auction. More disinformation being spread by the opposition.

 

[Eric Albus]

I have no doubt that it is a quote from an outfitter. MOGA is most certainly not behind any "doing away with buck permit areas". Most of us in MOGA would support going to LE Permits for mule deer yesterday.

 

[Walkalot]

Okay how are u going to allocate 39% of tags as outfitters.

 

[WIbiggame]

unless there should suddenly be an unpredicted and unprecedented rush on license applications in Mt.

It wouldn't be unpredicted or unprecedented. In the last 3 years NR applications for just elk has increased 19.5%. So your clients odds wouldn't change bc they are GUARANTEED tags but the regular NR DIY odds would drop by about 16% a year if this trend in NR applications continues. So as you can see my odds would go down. So 2021 odds if current trends continue would be 57% (assuming outfitters get 39%) and than would be 41% in 2022.

 

[Eric Albus]

Walkalot​

Member​

JoinedOct 28, 2020Messages83
Call what it is, its a grab to secure the future of outfitters. Its a business that only has a need because public lands are so mismanaged. And landowners can double dip basically. Get state/gov help then turn around and sell wildlife basically that are always said to be the publics. Ya totally see what going on. Stack the deck and make public land less desirable get more business.

Are you really missing the point by this far? Or are you intentionally trying to confound me?

Let me attempt to explain this as best I can in as simple terms as I can.

The 39% would be allocated to the outfitting community (as I pointed out above no real change in draw odds for DIY, unless an unpredicted, unprecedented and unforeseen run on Mt license happens, there could be and your odds decrease)

To your question about the 39% and figuring who they go to: Within the outfitting community all outfitters would be held to current use, maybe using a 2-3 yr. average to determine who gets what. FS use days keep FS outfitters limited, NCHU)net client hunting use) keeps us private land outfitters limited.

Now to the point Rod, aka Big Shooter, was making. By outfitters taking the 39% of NR hunters out of the equation putting most of them on PRIVATE Land. This keeps the 39%, roughly 8000 hunters OFF public land. I am at the point right now as to say I don't much care, let's take and just give them what they want, another 8000 DIY guys on BM and FS parking lots. The private land is not going to suddenly open up to the public. This was proven with I161.

Which brings me to another point that Ben Lamb brought up. It was not us(outfitters) who broke promises and the deal with the OSL. It was the opposition. The outfitting community did not grow under the OSL(it actually shrunk, as it would do again if 143 passes). We(outfitters) did not increase acreage leased, we actually went backward in acres, but we got that info a little to late from Board of Outfitters, not that it would've mattered.

Before you ask, The reason it would shrink if 143 passes is the same reason that it shrunk under the OSL. Many would not figure out how to market a higher priced license and still be profitable. Take the outfitter you quoted a few posts ago, I would bet that he/she could not market a license that cost $1500 along with the price of his services.

 

[Eric Albus]

WI you are correct if the trend continues.

 

[WIbiggame]

I am at the point right now as to say I don't much care, let's take and just give them what they want, another 8000 DIY guys on BM and FS parking lots.

You and Brad have said throughout this whole time you are getting the clients now even when they can't draw and you are booking out to 22-23 so trying to use the scare tactic of oh now there will be 8000 more people on public won't work either. You guys are STILL GETTING CLIENTS

 

[WIbiggame]

WI you are correct if the trend continues.

Thank you so wouldn't be unpredicted or unprecedented as the prediction and precedent is set already.

 

[Eric Albus]

We are, but you miss my point. I am fed up enough to not take a hunter next year to prove a point. Turn 8K more hunters loose on accessible land.

 

[Eric Albus]

Obviously there won't be 8k more ppl hunting public, but it'd serve the opposition right if there were. Every hunter that an outfitter does not draw is in direct competition with the Resident hunter and NR DIY hunter, On ACCESSIBLE Lands.

 

[mtmuley]

Every hunter that an outfitter does not draw is in direct competition with the Resident hunter and NR DIY hunter, On ACCESSIBLE Lands.

I'll take my chances. mtmuley

 

[Walkalot]

You are way more professional than i eric albus. Good explanations. But its a monopoly. So u get 39% plus what ever else runs your way. So with these gaurenteed tags is there a way or anything in the works that gaurenttes high paying clients better odds at hunting every year.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Commission seats thread? vs Outfitter tags thread confusion? !!!

 

[Walkalot]

Its all relative.

 

[WIbiggame]

Commission seats thread? vs Outfitter tags thread confusion? !!!

Respect that and I am sorry for derailing this.

 

[Eric Albus]

Nick, why further attempt to create strife and rift?

Why not embrace 4 landowners on the commission and hope things might get better for Montana resident hunters.

The last 26 years were certainly a failure to manage deer/elk for the public land hunter. Maybe things will get better under the new director and a new commission.

 

[Walkalot]

Lol

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

1. General tags are not difficult to draw as a NR so it's not like outfitters have clients waiting 20 years to draw most tags.
2. Outfitting is a BUSINESS. Try working the business, following up and going through your prospects to see who drew and get them booked. Outfitters - google "CRM" and get one. Not difficult to build an e-mail list and market to them or heaven forbid call them when the draws are conducted. Hell, maybe even get deposits before the draws and refund if the ones that don't draw. Hit a few trade shows and invest some time into finding new clients, maybe follow up with past clients. . .
3. The good outfitters will do well and the bad ones will fall by the wayside. We don't need more welfare to keep the shitbags afloat. There's plenty of tags issued for the good outfits to fill up annually.
4. Montana's FWP has been a laughing stock for a long time and handing over the public resources to outfitters and landowners won't end well. You might as well offer Hunter Biden a seat at this point.

Rant over. I'm sure there are fine people on both sides.