BH 209 prohibited in Nevada

[dainer]

http://www.ndow.org/about/news/pr/2011/july/BLACKHORN_209.pdf

Pretty glad I bough 6 jugs through mail order and now have 37 days to work up another load and sight in...

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

isnt bh 209 considered a black powder substituute? i thought it was legal in most states?,,,im using 777.

 

[nvhunter2]

Just read (and copied here) NAC 503.142 from the NDOW website, i see nothing about BH209. I havent recieved any notification of any type, i dont see it in this code, so i have to think that it would be considered legal.

NAC 503.142 Hunting big game mammal with firearm. (NRS 501.105, 501.181, 503.150) The Commission hereby establishes the following exceptions to paragraph (b) of subsection 1 of NRS 503.150:

1. During a type of hunt that is restricted to muzzle-loading firearms, a person may hunt a big game mammal only with a muzzle-loading rifle or muzzle-loading musket, and may use only a lead ball, a lead bullet, a semi-jacketed bullet or a metal alloy bullet that expands. The use of smokeless powder is prohibited. Only black powder or a black powder substitute such as Pyrodex or Triple 7 may be used as a propellant. A sabot round may be used. The muzzle-loading rifle or muzzle-loading musket must have the following characteristics:

(a) A wheel lock, matchlock or flintlock ignition system, or a percussion ignition system that uses a primer or percussion cap;

(b) A single barrel of caliber .45 or larger; and

(c) Open sights or peep sights. The use of a sight that is operated or powered by a battery, electronics or a radioactive isotope such as tritium is prohibited.

Ê The muzzle-loading rifle or the muzzle-loading musket is deemed to be not loaded if the priming compound or element, such as the priming powder or the unfired primer or percussion cap, is removed.

2. During a type of hunt that is restricted to muzzle-loading firearms, it is unlawful for a person hunting under the authority of a tag for such a hunt to carry in the field a firearm or longbow and arrow except for:

(a) A muzzle-loading rifle or a muzzle-loading musket with the characteristics set forth in subsection 1; or

(b) A flintlock or percussion handgun. However, it is unlawful to use such a handgun to hunt a big game mammal.

3. During a type of hunt in which the use of any legal weapon is authorized by a regulation of the Commission, a person may hunt a big game mammal with a muzzle-loading rifle or muzzle-loading musket only if:

(a) The muzzle-loading rifle or muzzle-loading musket has:

(1) A single barrel of caliber .45 or larger; and

(2) Open sights, peep sights or a rifle scope.

(b) The person uses a lead ball, a lead bullet, a semi-jacketed bullet or a metal alloy bullet that expands. A sabot round may be used.

Ê The muzzle-loading rifle or muzzle-loading musket is deemed to be not loaded if the priming compound or element, such as the priming powder or the unfired primer or percussion cap, is removed.

4. A person may hunt big game mammals with a rifle if the rifle uses a centerfire cartridge of caliber .22 or larger.

5. A person may hunt big game mammals with a handgun if the handgun uses a centerfire cartridge, has a barrel length of 4 inches or more and:

(a) Uses a cartridge of caliber .22 or larger with an overall loaded length of 2 inches or more; or

(b) Uses a cartridge of caliber .24 or larger with a case of length no less than the length of the case of a cartridge for a Remington magnum of caliber .44.

6. A person may hunt deer and mountain lion with a shotgun no larger than 10 gauge and no smaller than 20 gauge. Only rifled slugs or shotgun rounds with sabots that contain a single expanding projectile may be used when hunting deer. A shotgun that is used to hunt deer or mountain lion pursuant to this subsection may be equipped with a smoothbore barrel or a barrel that is partially or fully rifled.

[Bd. of Fish & Game Comm’rs, No. 25 § 6, eff. 12-4-79 + No. 26 § 6, eff. 12-4-79, A 5-12-80]—(NAC A by Bd. of Wildlife Comm’rs, 9-19-90; R155-97, 3-2-98; R176-03, 4-8-2004; R093-05, 10-31-2005; R185-05, 2-23-2006)

 

[Boot Up]

Sounds like someone at the NDOW is jumping the gun. In order to argue if Blackhorn is truely a smokless powder or blackpowder substitute they would need the chemical formula. I imagine this is top secret proprietery information. Blackhorn is marketed as a blackpowder substitute. I think if you were challenged on this by an officer you would have a good counter argument that would hold up in front of a judge, unless they change their regulations to specifically outlaw Blackhorn 209. I imagine at that point Western Powders would have reason to file a law suit. I am very interested to see where this goes. I just started shooting BH209 and plan on using it during muzzy season here in CO.

 

[WBouldin]

This is ridiculous! I dont own any guns currently because I grew up in southern california and had nowhere to shoot them and now that i go to school in Nevada i was really looking into muzzleloaders so i could continue being a "primitive" hunter as i only have a bow. I have heard nothing but greatness about BH209 so now im really down in the dumps. Do any of you Blackpowder vets know of any other propellants that are as dependable?

 

[1_pointer]

I've had nothing but good luck with Triple 7 pellets.

 

[nvhunter2]

i searched pretty hard last night on ndows website, i cant find the pdf file that is shown in the link above. I found the NAC code and thats what i copied and pasted to my above post, it says NOTHING about BH209 at all. I dont know how or where those words were inserted into the original post, not saying they were, but they are not in the NAC posted on ndows website. if someone can point to the file on ndows website i would like to see it, i just cant find it anywhere on thier site.
I dont consider a blank page posted on a hunting site that is not affiliated with ndow as a ruleing. And if it is on thier website then what about the people that do not use the www for information? Its not in thier big game hunting regulation booklet that they send with your tag, which is supposed to be what we hunters follow.

 

[Summitthunting]

nvhunter2,
Go to the NV Dow home page, bottom right hand corner, under latest news. "Attention Muzzle-loader Hunters" will take you to the above announcement.

 

[nvhunter2]

Thank you, missed it somehow. So what about people that do not look at ndows site? I wonder if there is going to be some kind of official letter mailed? I would think it would have to be regestered mail, otherwise there would be no proof to say that it was actually delivered to the person it was intended for?

 

[wgiles]

If I am not mistaken, Arizona did prohibit the use of BH209, but recently revised their position and now allow the use of BH209 for hunting. It is up to the hunters that want to shoot BH209, to write the state and ask for a change. Blackhorn 209 is a volume for volume black powder substitute whether it contains nitrocellulose or not.

Some states may not allow BH209 in traditional muzzle loading seasons, but also do not allow the use of in-line muzzle loaders. If I am forced to use triple 7, I might not bother hunting.

 

[schmalts]

What a crock. By is a loose. Powder and the biggest advantage is no cleaning, but that isn't an advantage when hunting but is when practicing and sighting.

 

[Boot Up]

This is a crock. Western Powders is fighting this. They sent me this PDF. I think based on this information a judge would see things differently than the NDOW if a hunter was ticketed and took the issue to court. The federal government classifies BH209 as a blackpowder substitute and not a smokeless powder.

BLACKHORN 209 FACT SHEET
1) What is Blackhorn 209?
Blackhorn 209 is a safe, clean granular propellant designed
to be loaded volumetrically in the same manner as black
powder in muzzleloaders with 209 ignition systems.
Blackhorn 209 is also suitable for black powder cartridges.
2) Is Blackhorn 209 is a smokeless powder?
NO, The regulatory authorities who determine the
classification of energetic materials, The Explosives
Bureau, U.S D.O.T. and Canadian Energy Research
Laboratories have determined the classification of Blackhorn 209 to be US/UN
PROPELLANT, SOLID, UN0499. Smokeless Powders are classified as POWDER,
SMOKELESS, UN0161.
• Blackhorn 209 shares the same legal classification (Propellant, solid, UN0499) as all
black powder substitutes, Triple 7, Pyrodex, American Pioneer, Shockey’s Gold and
GOEX Pinnacle.
• Blackhorn 209 has been engineered to be loaded volumetrically in the same manner as
black powder. Unlike Blackhorn 209, Smokeless Powders are designed for centerfire
rifle, handgun and shotshell applications. Typical volumetric loads for black powder or
Blackhorn 209 would be extremely dangerous with Smokeless Powder.
• Blackhorn 209 has been designed and engineered to provide performance characteristics
similar to black powder and is distinctly different than Smokeless Powder. Smokeless
Powders are not designed and should never be used in general muzzleloading
applications in a volumetric equivalent manner.
The following chart indicates peak pressure at equal charge volumes.
300 grain Barness Expander MZ
GOEX 4Fg T7 2Fg T7 3Fg Blackhorn 209 T7 Pellet No
Tamp
T7 Pellet Firm
Tamp
P
R
E
S
S
U
R
e
BLACKHORN 209 FACT SHEET
Western Powders Inc. PO Box 158 Miles City, Montana 59301
Smokeless Powders are designed for high powered centerfire rifle, handgun and
shotshell. Smokeless Powders ARE NOT designed to be loaded volumetrically
equivalent to black powder in muzzleloaders. Loading ANY Smokeless Powder
volumetrically in the same manner as black powder or Blackhorn 209 in a muzzleloader
can reach devastating and dangerous pressure levels.
Peak Pressures at Equivalent Charge Volumes
-
GOEX 4Fg T7 2Fg T7 3Fg Blackhorn 209 T7 Pellet No
Tamp
T7 Pellet Firm
Tamp
Accurate 5744
P
R
E
S
S
U
R
E
Summary
• Blackhorn 209 is a muzzleloading propellant designed to be loaded volumetrically
in the same manner as black powder in modern inline muzzleloaders with a 209
ignition system.
• Blackhorn 209 is not a Smokeless Powder. Blackhorn 209 is classified as
propellant solid, not as Smokeless Powder.
• Blackhorn 209 and Black Powder are not suitable propellants for modern cartridges.
For more technical information, contact Don Luhr at (406) 234-0422
http://www.blackhorn209.com/

 

[dainer]

I agree with everyone else here. I got an offiial letter in the mail today, and my wife said she heard an ad about it on the local radio station today....Here it is.

"July 26, 2011

Muzzle-loading only tag holders:

The department has recently recieved numerous questions regarding the use of Blackhorn 209 during the muzzle-loading only season. Per NAC 503.142 (1) only blackpowder or a blackpowder substitute such as Pyrodex or Triple 7 may be used as a propellant. The use of smokeless powder is prohibited.

Black-powder and black-powder substitutes are carbon based propellants. Smokeless powders are nitrocellulose based propellants. Blackhorn 209 has nitrate ester (nitrocellulose) as a base propellant and is therefore a smokeless powder and prohibited buring muzzle-loading only season.

Due to the volume of questions and uncertainty the Department is sending this letter to all muzzle-loading only tag holders for the 2011 season. If you have any questions please contact Captain Cameron Waithman at (775)688-1547.

Congratulations on drawing a tag and we wish you a safe and successful hunt.

Sincerely,

Robert W. Buonamici
Chief Game Warden"

Not sure what the big deal is. Other than being a little cleaner, there is no real advantage worthy of making it illegal...

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I would have to disagree with those who say if you used it and got a ticket that a Judge would see differently. If you went into a state court, all the Judge is going to look at is whether their state allows it or doesn't, regardless of whether it clashes with the Federal classification or what hunters think of it as a BP substitute. The person must know what is legal and what is not whether we are talking hunting or the speed laws and violating that restriction by saying you didn't get a certified letter would also get you nowhere in a court of law. Trust me on this one as I was in LE for 30+ years dealing with a couple hundred different laws and regulations at the state level. Until a suit is filed and the company wins in court or the state changes their mind before a court battle and allows it, I would not chance getting a ticket with the various ramifications it might have in all the other states that are in the Wildlife Violator Compact and it's approaching 40 states now.