Bad Guides and Experiences

[npaden]

I've used 5 guides in my life now. 4 were this year. All of them were top notch and I wouldn't hesitate to use any of them again or refer someone else to them.

Talking with them, there is no doubt that I couldn't be a guide. Like Salmonchaser, they say most everyone is great to deal with, but they do get the occasional client that is terrible. I don't think I could put up with the terrible clients.

 

[Letthemgrow]

Years ago I hunted a large ranch in West Texas for mule deer.
The guide finished a six-pack of Budweiser long necks before 9 AM.
Couldn't get out of there fast enough.
(Although the arrowhead collection at the ranch headquarters was almost worth it. The amount of intact bird points they had was easily most I've ever seen.)

 

[Steiny77]

I've done quite a few guided hunts and all were good experiences with good outcomes, barring one exception, below:

Several years ago myself and a buddy drew Kansas WT tags and my regular outfitter had issues and couldn't take us so I went online and just selected an outfit without checking references, etc. An Outfit in Otswego KS had a good website and talked a good game on the phone about his four star accommodations and meals, premier hunting areas, etc. so I booked with them.

When we showed up the headquarters is an old school building remodeled into a lodge. We had to tote all our gear to our third floor room. Everything about the place and operation was done on the cheap to cut corners. Old school houses had boilers, so since remodeling upstairs had no heat except a little electric heater in our classroom sized room. School houses had common restrooms too, so it was a 150' hike to a restroom to pee in middle of the night and down two floors down to use the shower.

Night before hunting the fourteen hunters in camp got a big lecture about how we would all be fined if we shot anything under 140", and they spent most of their time telling what great hunters they were. One of the outfitters was actually going out hunting by himself every day while his "guides" took the hunters to their various locations. He would return each night talking about nice bucks he passed up. We were all given one stand for the week and moving wasn't an option. I think it was good hunting ground, just over hunted and not much attention given to wind direction for the clients. I only saw a couple bucks, nothing big. By day three I knew we were screwed so punched my doe tag just to take home some meat. One other hunter in camp shot a decent buck and those were the only two deer killed out of fourteen hunters. Most all of the hunters were griping and complaining.

The meals and food were pretty atrocious too. Nothing but cereal and coffee (if there was any made) for breakfast, slick meat sandwiches on wonder bread in a bag for lunch, then a crummy supper. For instance, meatloaf the first night, then chili the next, obvious that the chili was made of leftover meatloaf. We went out to supper the last couple nights rather than eat there.

The guides were just guys that knew the lay of the land and would drive you to your stands or help haul a deer to the processor. They had no place on the premises to skin or break down a deer.
All in all a really crummy operation. Upon return I found they had all sorts of sh#tty reviews online, so my bad for not checking them thoroughly. If you want the name of the place I'll gladly give it so nobody else winds up there, but don't know if that's within HT rules or not.

 

[Nuts]

Here is the thing. The good guides are pretty busy. People may tell their friends but are less likely to tell the world because they are already busy and selfishly people don't want them to busy. What you do see is all the negative because folks want to tell the world and warn them or its there only recourse. So here goes another post that is positive.

 

[BigHornRam]

I've been on a few guided hunts. One guide was a slug, but honestly the area was so game rich, that you didn't have to work hard to find animals. Two of my guides were exceptional. Great experience.

I've also guided for a couple outfitter friends, when they really needed the help. Some really great clients, and a few not so great. Last hunt was a group of 3 older friends from WA. One guy was very fit, and had no problem keeping up. The other 2 were old. I got one the old guys up on a ridge before light, heard a bugle, and quickly located a herd bull with about 10 cows on a ridge across the drainage. Said to the client let's go get him, and the client panics and says, he left his release back in camp! So we bailed off the ridge back towards camp, left him at the trail, ran back to camp to get his release, and obviously by the time we got back to where the elk were, they were long gone. Welcome to the world of guiding! They were a pleasant group of guys to hunt and share an elk camp with, anyway.

Couple of my most enjoyable hunts were with friends that drew really good tags, and I got to tag along. No pressure being the hunter, and no pressure being a guide.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Been on a couple guided hunts, AK and NWT. Both were great guys. Had different hunting style with one of them and we didn't really mesh well but that was not any of his doing. The other one was a great experience that I would hunt with again in a heartbeat. Most memorable thing for sure was finding out my guide was the son of Roger Patterson. Roger Patterson is the guy that took the famous bigfoot film footage in CA.


I was fascinated by bigfoot when I was younger so to meet the son of Roger Patterson was a huge surprise.

BTW, I did ask. Noncommittal either way.

 

[Stocker]

Never hired a guide, but was on the flip side of this question.

Obviously turkey and deer guiding in Nebraska is not in the same stratosphere as Alaska or even elk, but I’d say 90% of my clients were great, but that 10% will leave a bad taste for a long time. I’m sure it’s the same for hiring a guide.

 

[2rocky]

I too have been on both sides of the guide equation. I like to think it makes me a better client, but sometimes it is awful hard not to "guide the guide".

One outfitter my father and uncle had hunted with multiple times since 2000 asked the three of us to show his new guide the country on opening day of elk season(2007). That was the hunt where I quartered, and packed out my own elk on my saddle horse 6 miles from camp. That guide has taken on quite a bit of responsibility with the outfit since then so I guess we trained him alright!

I've seen a couple "bad clients". I think I'd have a booking agency as a safeguard against that if I was in the outfitting business for hunting. You better believe the outfitters leave feedback for you as a client as well...

If I hire a guide and he feels like a hunting buddy, that is a job well done. We have to remember many western guides just want to ride horses in the mountains. It is rare to have a dedicated hunter with the same ideals as we have around the hunt. The spectrum goes from "tag the client out as fast as possible" to "all I care about are inches and score". A good guide and/or outfitter can determine a clients needs and wants and chameleon themselves into what that client needs. A great one will shapeshift to give them what they WANT.

As to how to be a good client...Simple....be in shape, know your weapon and shoot well. And of course be a good human being to the folks around you as well.

 

[NR_Hunter]

I’ve never used a hunting guide. If I was going to be hunting in a wilderness area in Wyoming I guess I wouldn’t have a choice, not that I have the money for a hunt like that anyways. After being on the eastern edge of the washakie wilderness this fall to fish, I think my ego could take the comfort of having a glorified babysitter. Got damn it’s some big country out there.

I had a somewhat scary experience with a fishing guide in Mexico in Puerto Aventuras. I with a guide at a beachside bar, who took me down the beach about a half mile, into the woods and thru an abandoned resort. He paid off a gang member infront of me as a toll to walk thru, who he had just talked to on the phone in Spanish. I had no clue if I was being set up or not.

Anyways, super cool experience, caught a few fish, and got to do some actual exploring that most tourists never get to.

 

[Straight Arrow]

A friend of mine grew up hunting deer in Pennsylvania, but wanted to hunt elk. So he moved to Montana and attended a hunting guide course, from which he earned certification. and landed a job as an elk hunting guide. He had never ridden a horse, dressed out an elk, or hunted high mountains, but to his credit he figured it out. Once after guiding clients deep into the mountains, they were caught in a severe snowstorm with limited visibility and tough going. Also much to his credit, he dropped the reins and let his horse lead them back to the trailhead. He then decided to end his career as a guide, so he went to work for an insulation company in sales, where he prospered. Still a hunter, he hunted for himself and did well.
He even found irony and humor in his Montana hunting guide story and we had some laughs about it.

 

[HappyCamper]

Here is my internet sniveling for the day:

Guided hunts have NEVER interested me but when I started applying for other states I recognized some hunts may justify one. I was fortunate enough to draw a very coveted deer tag my first year of seriously applying, and the hunt was super low density and in the desert. Having no experience in the desert and dreaming of 200”er, I hired a “top outfitter” through a well known booking service. In the 7 months between booking and 2 weeks before the hunt, I spoke to the outfitter once who assured he had a great guide for the hunt. I finally contacted the outfitter 2 weeks before the hunt and he indicated he was working on getting a guide and lodging lined up. I left for the hunt still knowing nothing, I had to reach out again and I was put in touch with the guide and sent to a hotel.
The guide didn’t seem to really care about my expectations and was late leaving our hotel every morning. He admitted he did not have time to scout at all but would take me to a spot his local guide friend had told him a decent buck (140”) was hanging out. I had already told him I wasn’t interested in anything under 160”, especially the first day. We managed to find 3 does the first day and never saw another deer for the rest of the 5 day hunt. On day 4 we found some fresh buck tracks that I felt should have deer nearby. I asked if it would be worth while tracking them which he agreed. During the short walk the guide was pathetic: stumbling, playing music on his phone, and basically pouting. Afterwards he was condescending and blamed me for wasting our only good weather window.
Later that day we stumbled into a guide who stated he had his client on a nice buck and wanted us to turn around so their stalk wasn’t ruined. My guide then laid into me about it being my fault we weren’t on the deer because of my hike earlier. He then revealed his local guide friend had told him of a 180” buck in this area and claimed it was his plan to be at this spot earlier . He said he didn’t tell me about this deer because then that’s all I would have wanted to pursue… DUHH!!! He showed me the pin the friend had shared with him which I confirmed was sent the day before the hunt. I tracked everywhere we went on the hunt and not once did my guide take me in that area before that morning… we returns to the area the next day (last day) and ran into the client and lead guide. They confirmed it was the same 180” deer but they ultimately couldn’t get it due to scattered reservation lands.

I got the feeling my guide knew my hunt was a tough one and wanted to have me to blame if it didn’t go well. He made it clear how much guides despise DIY hunters like myself and left a really sour taste in my mouth. I provided a review of my experience to the booking service and never received any feedback back from the service, outfitter, or guide. No offense, but I’d rather spend 5 days in jail than another 5 days with anyone in the outfitting industry. I don’t foresee myself ever going guided again after my experience. Too much money and way more rewarding my way.

 

[MNElkNut]

I went with a very reputable outfitter into the WY wilderness with my dad one year. The outfitter was fantastic; the guide not so much. The problem was the guide grew up as the son of another outfitter and thought he was god's gift to guides and clients. He acted all tough and thought he was an expert. Then, in the heat of the moment when a bull was in range, he made some really bad decisions. We got the bull, but no thanks to him. It really felt like it he was a rookie when the bull was in sight and close enough to shoot. I bet he didnt last long with that outfitter as that outfitter was really good in every aspect. My dad has a saying.....some people have 20 years of experience and some have 1 year of experience 20 times.

 

[Nick87]

But, there are certainly hunters that barely lift a finger to do anything, I experienced that this fall and confirmed why I would never want to be a guide. If you get the right clients it's probably a lot of fun, you get a lazy turd that won't even glass or help around camp, help with the horses, etc., probably a nightmare.

Went on one guided hunt, the amount of Bitching and whining about not meeting there expectations and telling the guides what they were doing wrong was enough to make realize I'm not cut out for it. I always said I'd probably never do another guided hunt. However, there's a couple hunts I'd really like to do and hiring a guide is the only way to make it worth pursuing logistically imo.

 

[BobT1105]

I have been on 3 guided hunting trips in my lifetime, the first was my first pronghorn hunt and I killed a nice one before noon on the first day. Guided hunt #2 was a Cape Buffalo and plains game hunt in Tanzania, what a trip! Finally, I went on a bear hunt in Idaho, in this case the bears just didn’t cooperate, the outfitter and guides all bent over backwards to get me a bear, it just didn’t happen. The hunt was a great experience and I had a fantastic time. I would hunt with any of these outfits again and would give them a great reference. I have also taken a couple of guided fishing trips, one in Mexico and the other in Louisiana. Both of these trips were successful also, in fact I have 2 more trips booked with the guy in Louisiana for this year.

I think the reason I have always had great experiences is because I have always been the type to pitch in and get my hands dirty. I work hard to be the client the outfitter wants to come back. I practice my shooting and try to be as ready as possible to do my part. I chose to go guided on my bear and first pronghorn hunt because I was clueless about what, where, when and how. In Tanzania there was no other option.

I don’t expect a baby sitter and I’m perfectly capable of wiping my own ass!

 

[Rack Daniels]

Had one guy from Portland intentionally start pointing his shotgun at me after I scolded him. That got resolved rather dramatically.

What happened!? You disarm his ass? As an ex-cop, swat even, I imagine you had more thoughts of what would be justifiable than the average civilian… that’s crazy man… sad.

 

[Birddog916]

I have only done 2 guided trips and one was a great drop camp two years ago in Colorado and I'd book again with them. The first was more than 10 years ago with an outfit out of Libby, MT and it soured me on guided trips until this last drop camp. Our "guide" was just a driver and all he wanted to do is road hunt, chain smoke cigs, fall asleep in the truck while we hunted and he talk politics constantly. It was billed as a combo deer and elk hunt and we both purchased Montana combo tags. We never saw an elk the whole week and the best deer we saw was a 3x3 running across the road in town. The guide wanted me to shoot a spike from the truck, but I declined. It was and is by far the worst hunting experience I have ever had. We were sold a bill of good on that deal. It was not as advertised. They said we would be hunting away from roads by foot, horse, or atv but in reality we just drove around in pickups. It was evident the guide had done no scouting and had no idea how to find deer or elk. It was also one of the last tips I made with my late uncle who was responsible for getting me into hunting in the first place. He died shortly after this trip and it was the last time we hunted big game together.

 

[Nuts]

Here is one you western guys may have some advice experience on. Several relatives did a Colorado drop camp. On pickup day nobody showed up. Or the next day. Weather was fine. Just nobody showed up. Family here was calling the outfitter. No response. The family got a response 3 days after pickup that the guide was sick and they were working on an alternate pick up. 4 days after pickup the alternative got them out. They were out of food. And not happy. Pre sat communication. In AK I think only once pickup has gone as planned. And we are prepared for it. Sometimes its hours. Sometimes its days. But thats the plan.

 

[sapperJ24]

A partial list of complaints with this outfitter is in the following article. Nice that MOGA took action against him.

Montana men sentenced in illegal Alaska brown bear hunt

Two Montana men have been sentenced each to a misdemeanor charge of conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act after reaching plea deals in the illegal shooting of a brown bear in Alaska.

hungryhorsenews.com

 

[Nunjagottam]

NC offshore fishing trip, guide went full Captain Ahab in search of Grouper. We did finally catch one, but the whole day was stress and uncomfortable. Guide was totally unprepared and I'm pretty sure he had me help him poach our live bait out of some private inland water-way before we headed out onto the ocean. My GF had flown out with my kids for this trip and we were happy to catch anything that wss biting, as it was our first time on the ocean. Every time we caught a shark he acted like it was the end of the world. I caught a nice baracudu but the guide's demenor killed the buzz.
Funny thing, while we were boarding at the dock a guy from another boat was talking mad shit at our guide and offered to take us out on his boat for free to "spare us the misery ". We dismissed it as local drama. Dang, shoulda taken up that offer instead.

 

[antlerradar]

I have only done 2 guided trips and one was a great drop camp two years ago in Colorado and I'd book again with them. The first was more than 10 years ago with an outfit out of Libby, MT and it soured me on guided trips until this last drop camp. Our "guide" was just a driver and all he wanted to do is road hunt, chain smoke cigs, fall asleep in the truck while we hunted and he talk politics constantly. It was billed as a combo deer and elk hunt and we both purchased Montana combo tags. We never saw an elk the whole week and the best deer we saw was a 3x3 running across the road in town. The guide wanted me to shoot a spike from the truck, but I declined. It was and is by far the worst hunting experience I have ever had. We were sold a bill of good on that deal. It was not as advertised. They said we would be hunting away from roads by foot, horse, or atv but in reality we just drove around in pickups. It was evident the guide had done no scouting and had no idea how to find deer or elk. It was also one of the last tips I made with my late uncle who was responsible for getting me into hunting in the first place. He died shortly after this trip and it was the last time we hunted big game together.

Truck hunting is standard practice with many outfitters in Eastern Montana. Eastern Montana and Libby could not be more different. In Eastern Montana with the wide open spaces, doe herds hitting the hay fields and the rut this hunting method is very effective if your goal is a love struck, two or three year old four point. Not exactly a western hunt I would be willing to pay for, but thousand of hunters are.