AZ Elk...

[Moosie]

I don't put in for AZ. I figure 10-15 years is a long time. It's never to late to start I guess but hunting AZ isn't on the books for me.

But it got me wondering. Has anyone drawn a tag after 10-15 years and then started building points back up ? I'm jst wondering if a guy at 25 starts putting in and draws at 40, would you start putting back in knowing maybe you won't hunt till your 55. (Not saying you can't hunt that long).do you put back in, draw at 55 then put back in and draw at 70 again ? Or are you just happy and stop putting in ?

 

[Delw]

Oscar the bonus points dont make any difference what so ever. most people dont realize this.
arizona has the only true lottery system for big game the rest are twisted to help people that have been putitng in for a long time get drawn faster.

 

[BOHNTR]

Oscar:

I've drawn 3 archery bull elk tags since 1993.......not bad odds if you ask me. Apply.....you might be surprised.

 

[Larry Landgren]

Yeah the bonus point thing is total bull shit. I drew a a unit 10 rifle bull tag with only 2 previous bonus points. I know a guy who drew a unit 9 early rifle rut hunt tag with no bonus points.

 

[mattobertin]

The way the bonus point thing was explained to me was say you have five bonus points your name is put in five times. It increases your chance of being drawn but does not mean you will be drawn. Basicly it is like having your name in a hat five times with 100,000 other people in the same hat.

 

[Excaliber]

The way the point system is now Non Residents have absolutely zero chance of drawing a tag north of the ditch for Deer or an Elk tag in units 1,3AC, 3B,27,8,9,10 plus some of the other units without having max points.

Arizona basically turned thier bonus point system into a preference point system for Nonresidents with the new 20% pool.
As a non resident if you are not a max point holder you will not get a tag in the draw in the top units since 20% of all tags go to these people in the max point pool. Since so many non residents have max points they draw all the available tags out of this bonus pool leaving no tags left for the rest of the non residents in the remaining part of the draw.

In the past( prior to last year) you could have drawn a tag in these areas but no more unless you are a max point holder.

Did I mention you need to have max points now to get a tag in the best units in Az. now?

You can draw a tag in other units that most consider to be lesser units but the overall quality is good and big Bulls can be found in just about any AZ. unit. You just need a tag.

Until they change the Bonus point pool % I will just put in for points since the units I want to hunt take Max points.

 

[AZ402]

We take guys in 8, 9 and 10 every year who have little to no points for elk. The rifle rut hunts in those units may require close to max points.

The deer is another story for sure. Every NR who drew a late hunt N. of the Canyon was in the max pool.

Schmalts drew a hunt that only had 2 NR tags available for lope. He was no where near max points for lope.

Basically if you don't apply you won't draw. If you are in, you always have a chance..........

 

[1_pointer]

arizona has the only true lottery system for big game

Might want to do a bit of checking. IMO, Idaho's is a true lottery system. No points, nothin'! Also, any state that has bonus points will be very similar in AZ as to the 'fairness'. Preference points are a whole 'nuther matter.

 

[Craig S.]

Resident vs Non-Resident is definetly a different ball game. With that being said there are some decent hunts you can draw for bull elk without max points.

We need a 3-5 year wait rule, as I get tired of hearing of people drawing year after year.

 

[Excaliber]

We take guys in 8, 9 and 10 every year who have little to no points for elk. The rifle rut hunts in those units may require close to max points.

The deer is another story for sure. Every NR who drew a late hunt N. of the Canyon was in the max pool.

Schmalts drew a hunt that only had 2 NR tags available for lope. He was no where near max points for lope.

Basically if you don't apply you won't draw. If you are in, you always have a chance..........

AZ402,
Are these guys who drew tags in 8,9 and 10 residents because I have heard from several people in AZ. that if you do not possess max points as a non resident you will not draw these Elk tags. These people purchace the points draw sheet form AZ. F&G and that's what they have told me.

Since non residents only recieve up to 10% of the tags and 20% of the tags go to hunters with max points the tags available for the non residents are gone in the 20% MAX point pool draw.

Isn't this true?

 

[AZ402]

We very rarely take resident hunters out. We get all the draw sheets as well. When we get done booking I'll see what the average bonus point total was. Only two people had true max points for elk going into this years elk draw (18 points). Somthing like 8 people had 17pts, 54 had 16pts and I think 99 had 15pts. It all depends were the high point guys are putting in. Most people with that many points are putting in early rifle rut and are going to be waiting a few more years. It leaves a lot of tags for guys in the November hunts..................

 

[Delw]

Might want to do a bit of checking. IMO, Idaho's is a true lottery system. No points, nothin'! Also, any state that has bonus points will be very similar in AZ as to the 'fairness'. Preference points are a whole 'nuther matter.

1 pointer , your correct. The bonus points dont make it a true lottery system, its canted a tad.

Resident vs Non-Resident is definetly a different ball game. With that being said there are some decent hunts you can draw for bull elk without max points.

We need a 3-5 year wait rule, as I get tired of hearing of people drawing year after year.

Craig I dont think so. it woudlnt work anyway unless everyone just put in and game and fish picked the unit and the bull or cow tag.
too many people not enough game.
it took me 20 years for my first tag I am not complaining and I dont even like elk.

Delw

 

[AZ402]

AZ402,
Since non residents only recieve up to 10% of the tags and 20% of the tags go to hunters with max points the tags available for the non residents are gone in the 20% MAX point pool draw.

Isn't this true?

I just saw a post on bowsite were a NR drew 10 on a second choice with 11 points. That's 9 or 10 years of applying, depending on his AZ hunter ed status.

Really all you have to do is look at schmalts drawing his tag on a second choice with 5 points. That proves to me that there is always a chance at a tag if you are applying.

 

[Delw]

I drew on one point LOL and my early bull tag in unit 8 2 years ago was one point + plus bonus in each one cause I forgot to put in the following year

 

[Brian Olson]

The way the point system is now Non Residents have absolutely zero chance of drawing a tag north of the ditch for Deer or an Elk tag in units 1,3AC, 3B,27,8,9,10 plus some of the other units without having max points.

Arizona basically turned thier bonus point system into a preference point system for Nonresidents with the new 20% pool.
As a non resident if you are not a max point holder you will not get a tag in the draw in the top units since 20% of all tags go to these people in the max point pool. Since so many non residents have max points they draw all the available tags out of this bonus pool leaving no tags left for the rest of the non residents in the remaining part of the draw.

In the past( prior to last year) you could have drawn a tag in these areas but no more unless you are a max point holder.

Did I mention you need to have max points now to get a tag in the best units in Az. now?

You can draw a tag in other units that most consider to be lesser units but the overall quality is good and big Bulls can be found in just about any AZ. unit. You just need a tag.

Until they change the Bonus point pool % I will just put in for points since the units I want to hunt take Max points.

You are correct. The unit(s) you apply for and your residency status make all the difference in the world. As you mentioned, it is now impossible for nonresidents to draw an early tag in the units you mentioned above, (and any other unit where the 10% non-res quota is reached through the top 20% bonus pt apps) w/o being in the max points pool. Since the max point pool is unit specific, non-residents who want to hunt the premier units better make sure that they're in it for the long haul or you wont get drawn.

Since the hunter AZ402 was refering to was drawn on his 2nd choice for unit 10, that means he either applied for 9 or 3A/3C as his first choice (assuming he applied for archery hunts) where he wasn't in the max pool (point pool unit specific), however he was in the max point pool for unit 10, and hence he was able to draw a tag.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Does Arizona square points like Washington and Nevada?

 

[AZ402]

I understand all the 10%, 20% cap and pass rules. If it is impossible to draw these low odds tag without max points for that hunt (could 8pts for one unit and 18 for another, you are right). How did schmalts draw a tag that is as hard as any to get with only FIVE points?? I know that 5pts wasn't the max for that hunt.

 

[AZ402]

Does Arizona square points like Washington and Nevada?

No, it's basically another ball in the hopper every year you don't draw.

 

[Brian Olson]

I understand all the 10%, 20% cap and pass rules. If it is impossible to draw these low odds tag without max points for that hunt (could 8pts for one unit and 18 for another, you are right). How did schmalts draw a tag that is as hard as any to get with only FIVE points?? I know that 5pts wasn't the max for that hunt.

Well, I couldn't answer your question, so I called AZGFD. Turns out you're right, it is possible to draw a tag as a non-resident w/o being in the max points pool. I was misinformed on how the draw process works.

Basically, there are two passes of tag drawings. The first pass is reserved for those in the max point pool (20% of tags reserved for this drawing). Then there is another pass for the remaining 80% of the tags, where every bonus point you have will give you another chance in the drawing. No more than 10% of the tags in each drawing will go to non-residents.

Say, for example, there's 100 tags available on a particular unit. There would first be a drawing for the max point holders (20 tags reserved for the drawing). Since only 10% of the tags will go to non-residents in this drawing, only 2 of these max point tags will go to non-residents. Following the max point drawing, there will be another drawing for the remaining 80 tags. 10% of these tags will go to non-residents. This means that 8 out of 100 tags are available to non-residents, regardless of their bonus point status. Those w/ more bonus points will still have a better chance of drawing, however it is possible to draw a tag as a non-resident w/o any bonus points.

This is completely different from how it was described to me in the past. Even though I was misinformed about the system, I guess I can't feel all that bad. Shoot, the Huntin' Fool magazine described it wrong as well (described it the same as I did previously), and they get paid to understand how drawing systems work. LOL.

 

[AZ402]

I wasn't trying to be a douche-bag, just trying to say there is always a chance if you are in the draw..........