AZ Elk...

[Brian Olson]

I wasn't trying to be a douche-bag, just trying to say there is always a chance if you are in the draw..........

Nah, don't worry about it. Shoot, I'm glad you said something. I was totally misinformed on how the system works. Now I know

 

[MarvB]

Brian a belated welcome to the darkside....I see you're just over the hill.
Got any of those Trinity Alps monsters to share with us??

 

[Brian Olson]

Got any of those Trinity Alps monsters to share with us??

Man, that's a myth

There aren't many deer up here, and the ones that are around are just puny little blacktails

Thanks for the welcome.

 

[Craig S.]

Any elk hunts do not fall under the 10% cap rule...(Which is BS in my opinion)

Delw, Explain your view a little more, let us in on your philosphy about the waiting rule. Too me it seems logical to make folks wait 3-5 years before applying again, atleast if you draw an antlered elk permit. We have a limited resource & draw odds are just going to get worse.

If I remember right Nevada & Utah have wait rules.

 

[AZMIKE111]

I understand all the 10%, 20% cap and pass rules. If it is impossible to draw these low odds tag without max points for that hunt (could 8pts for one unit and 18 for another, you are right). How did schmalts draw a tag that is as hard as any to get with only FIVE points?? I know that 5pts wasn't the max for that hunt.

Stan I've been wondering the same thing for a couple days now. I guess Brian above explained it the way I've never heard before but it seems to make sense being how Schmalts drew a tag. Also saw another on MM.com member, NR with 3 or 4 pts draw unit 7 lope. I've always thought for a NR to draw most good units in AZ for lope they would need max points, but I guess it's not the case.

 

[Excaliber]

Here's a few examples of how the Non Res. tags are taken in the 20% Bonus Pool.

Unit total tags 20% pool tags tags/Non Res.

3AC 100 20 10

8 125 25 12

9 75 15 7

10 125 25 12


Take unit 3AC for example. These are Archery hunt tag numbers.

There are 100 total tags available for this hunt. Out of these 100 tags, 20 are set aside for the 20% Bonus Pool and Non residents are only allowed 10 tags at the most (up to 10%) for this hunt unit (in total).

Since non residents have more points than the residents they are the ones who dominate the 20% bonus pool for now.

Only 10 tags total are available to non residents for this hunt. 20 tags are in the Bonus Pool of this draw.
The Non Resident tag quota(up to 10 tags) is filled in this bonus pool draw leaving zero tags available for the rest of the non residents in the remaining 80% drawing.

I hope this makes sense. This is how it was explained to me by a few hunters and Guides from AZ. who know a heck of allot more about the AZ. draw sytem than I do.

I'm not complaining about the System at all, Well actually I am. I wish they would make it so there were actually more tags available to the rest of us non residents in the regular part of the draw.

I'll keep putting in until I draw an Elk tag in AZ. then I'm out unless they tweak the system a bit where I don't have to wait 20 years for my next tag.

 

[Brian Olson]

Here's a few examples of how the Non Res. tags are taken in the 20% Bonus Pool.

Unit total tags 20% pool tags tags/Non Res.

3AC 100 20 10

8 125 25 12

9 75 15 7

10 125 25 12


Take unit 3AC for example. These are Archery hunt tag numbers.

There are 100 total tags available for this hunt. Out of these 100 tags, 20 are set aside for the 20% Bonus Pool and Non residents are only allowed 10 tags at the most (up to 10%) for this hunt unit (in total).

Since non residents have more points than the residents they are the ones who dominate the 20% bonus pool for now.

Only 10 tags total are available to non residents for this hunt. 20 tags are in the Bonus Pool of this draw.
The Non Resident tag quota(up to 10 tags) is filled in this bonus pool draw leaving zero tags available for the rest of the non residents in the remaining 80% drawing.

I hope this makes sense. This is how it was explained to me by a few hunters and Guides from AZ. who know a heck of allot more about the AZ. draw sytem than I do.

I'm not complaining about the System at all, Well actually I am. I wish they would make it so there were actually more tags available to the rest of us non residents in the regular part of the draw.

I'll keep putting in until I draw an Elk tag in AZ. then I'm out unless they tweak the system a bit where I don't have to wait 20 years for my next tag.

Ex,

That's exactly how I thought it was as well. However, that didn't explain for non-res hunters drawing tags w/o being in the max point pool. I called game and fish and got the low down (see previous post).

 

[Excaliber]

Ex,

That's exactly how I thought it was as well. However, that didn't explain for non-res hunters drawing tags w/o being in the max point pool. I called game and fish and got the low down (see previous post).

I also talked to a couple people today and they said it could be one of a few things that happened.



1) the max point pool in this particular unit they applied for had Non Res. tags left over after the max point draw that there was still a tag or tags available to be drawn in the 80% portion of the draw.

2) They had a great draw number and with thier first choice they could have picked a high demand unit and not recieve a tag for thier first choice but on thier second choice they chose a unit where they actually had max points or there were still tags available after the max pool draw.

3) Computer mistake.

We'll see how it all panned out here in the next couple months.

 

[AZ402]

Or the top 20% all went to residents leaving 2 tags for NR ,in the 80%, very possible.

 

[schmalts]

It still is freaking me out that i got the second choice though. That is still what has me mondering WTF?? Kind of wish i got my first pick, but i still don't understand it and trying to figure it out is hurting my head. It just seems to me that drawing that second choice, with LESS tags available seems impossible!

 

[AZ402]

Here is a message from a NR who drew last year.

"I drew last year for the late Unit 8 rifle with 6 points total. There were 425 tags, and it was my second choice, as first was for the Unit %@ muzzy. Maybe in a year or two, lightning will strike twice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You don't have to have high points to draw quality tags.......

 

[cjcj]

3 yrs ago my brothers wife drew a lope tag with no bonus pts...lucky Wench!

 

[MNHunter]

Well, I couldn't answer your question, so I called AZGFD. Turns out you're right, it is possible to draw a tag as a non-resident w/o being in the max points pool. I was misinformed on how the draw process works.

Basically, there are two passes of tag drawings. The first pass is reserved for those in the max point pool (20% of tags reserved for this drawing). Then there is another pass for the remaining 80% of the tags, where every bonus point you have will give you another chance in the drawing. No more than 10% of the tags in each drawing will go to non-residents.

Say, for example, there's 100 tags available on a particular unit. There would first be a drawing for the max point holders (20 tags reserved for the drawing). Since only 10% of the tags will go to non-residents in this drawing, only 2 of these max point tags will go to non-residents. Following the max point drawing, there will be another drawing for the remaining 80 tags. 10% of these tags will go to non-residents. This means that 8 out of 100 tags are available to non-residents, regardless of their bonus point status. Those w/ more bonus points will still have a better chance of drawing, however it is possible to draw a tag as a non-resident w/o any bonus points.

This is completely different from how it was described to me in the past. Even though I was misinformed about the system, I guess I can't feel all that bad. Shoot, the Huntin' Fool magazine described it wrong as well (described it the same as I did previously), and they get paid to understand how drawing systems work. LOL.

I don't even think AZF$G knows how the draw process works. Shoot, every time I call I get a different guy explaining a different process and saying the previous guy was wrong.

 

[Excaliber]

Here is a message from a NR who drew last year.

"I drew last year for the late Unit 8 rifle with 6 points total. There were 425 tags, and it was my second choice, as first was for the Unit %@ muzzy. Maybe in a year or two, lightning will strike twice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You don't have to have high points to draw quality tags.......

I could see that happening easily since 85 of those tags went in the 20%bonus pool and the other 340 in the regular 80% draw.