Attack on the Feds independence

[SAJ-99]

This is just completely false. They won't do it at the artificially suppressed wage, but they would if you paid them more. Isn't that what we want, for people to be paid more? Where I work is prime example. Lowest wage we have is $25/hr. Shop laborer. If we pay less than that we get exactly what you speak of. If we hired people that were not legally eligible to work in the US then I could pay half that rate.

It's a fine line. Get Americans to pick apples or lettuce? Repair a roof? the bottom line is we have enjoyed immigrant labor through lower prices for a long time. Get rid of them and we have a labor shortage. Pay Americans more and prices will go up. It is decision we need to make. But you were correct in saying that wealth inequality is not a good measurement. That has always existed.

Thank you for making my point. His wealth, Jeff Bezos, Elon's does not come at my expense.

Nope. Not you. He is stealing from the poor and dumb that think the new American dream is crypto.

I have zero issue with the wealth of Bezos or Musk, but they have to pay taxes on it, which they have myriad of ways to avoid. Otherwise their wealth does come at your expense, just indirectly. The actions of Trump and DOGE and rise in the debt level shows we don't have spending problem. We have a revenue problem. That is everyone's problem.

 

[Bonasababy]

Paying your CEO more doesn't mean you must pay your workers less. Plenty of companies have CEO's with extreme wealth and extreme pay but their average employee or even lowest employee are earning a fine living.

Last I checked we all have one vote regardless of our NW. Most spent doesn't always result in who wins. I sure didn't in the last presidential election.

The American dream, whatever that actually is, is still alive and well. Is it the same as 50 years ago? No. Is it still achievable? Absolutely.

Best way, IMO, to depress wage growth for American workers is to provide an artificially high influx of low skill workers willing to work for extreme low wages. If I was CEO, why would I raise my average worker's pay when I can bring in an immigrant workforce that will accept a low wage as it is better than what they can get elsewhere?

Rich...
You have zero clue how many things this country produces and we need is already aided by companies going with cheaper labor.

And how many of these companies are now in trouble due to Trumps quotas.

Seems even those with visas and papers are staying home rather than go into work. Very clear to them the law means nothing to ICE.

 

[BigHornRam]

Because you can't find any US citizen to do the job at any wage that will remain sober and clear headed for an entire 8 hr day. Add to that the customer demands the product be as cheap as possible and doesn't care who does it, just wants it done semi-right.

I feel sorry for you if you truly believe this.

 

[406dn]

The Governing body of a Country concentrating wealth at the expense of its citizens is not the same as some citizens having a boat load more than others. When Trump starts raising my taxes so that he can increase his salary your analogy will be more appropriate.

If you can't see that Trump is enriching himself with his presidency, you might want to see an eye doctor.

And yes, they aren't exactly the same, but they are first cousins, maybe even siblings.

During the great depression, there was a cottage industry of kidnapping children from wealthy families. There is a reason so many very wealthy people live behind a gated enclosure. It does not promote a restful society when a very few have so much and a very large number have very little.

 

[SAJ-99]

I feel sorry for you if you truly believe this.

I see and hear about it every day.
Professional medical business has 12 non-owner employees. Offers bonus each quarter if they don't call in sick for more than 5 events (events, not days). First quarter, 7 got the bonus. Other 5 were livid. I say the same to any any business owner- if you have an employee that is good at their job and shows up every day, pay them as much as you can. But at some point, the price of the good or service offered becomes too high.

 

[BuzzH]

This is just completely false. They won't do it at the artificially suppressed wage, but they would if you paid them more. Isn't that what we want, for people to be paid more? Where I work is prime example. Lowest wage we have is $25/hr. Shop laborer. If we pay less than that we get exactly what you speak of. If we hired people that were not legally eligible to work in the US then I could pay half that rate.

Right, and $25 an hour isn't enough for a family of 4 to live on if you want your ol' lady raising the kids. Isn't that another big lie? We want stay at home Mom's to raise the kids? You know so they can be raised right?

Good luck on $25 an hour for a single family income...ain't happening, and that is a FACT.

That was not the case when I was growing up, and I'll prove it.

My Dad worked in a gdamn lumber mill all his life. In 1968 he was making about 12-13K a year at a lumber mill. Their first house they bought for $9,800 dollars, so roughly about what he cleared in a years worth of labor.

That same house in Missoula is now worth $500k...you think guys working at lumber mills (assuming they still existed) are making $550,000 a year to make enough to buy that house with a years wages?

At your $25/hour wage, it would only take them about 10 years of wages to do the same thing my Dad did in 1968 in one year...let that sink in for a moment and tell me how great $25/hour is. Tell me that the American Dream is alive and well.

Sorry, not buying it, neither are the people making $25/hour.

 

[BigHornRam]

Cutting middle class taxes will balloon the debt even more. Restoring former rates from Reagans time on the wealthy..Will greatly improve it.

Unless of course you call Ronnie a commie pinko socialist. Be about par for some here.

Don't know where you get your information, but it's not accurate.

The top federal income tax rate in the U.S. is 37%, which applies to the highest earners (e.g., over $640,600 for single filers in 2026), though this is a marginal rate, meaning it only hits the top portion of income. The U.S. has seven federal income tax brackets (10%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, 35%, and 37%), with rates increasing as income rises.

At the end of Reagan's presidency (early 1989), the top marginal income tax rate was 28%, down from 70% at the start of his term, following the landmark Tax Reform Act of 1986, which also simplified the code and lowered the lowest rate to 15%. The capital gains tax rate was also significantly reduced to 20% by 1988, a major cut from 28%.

 

[Handlebar]

25/hour = $52,0000 for a no skill job sounds pretty good to me especially if a person has the opportunity to learn new skills and advance.

 

[BuzzH]

25/hour = $52,0000 for a no skill job sounds pretty good to me especially if a person has the opportunity to learn new skills and advance.

Sure, as long as you don't mind renting, drive a broke down p.o.s. vehicle, take no vacations your whole life and don't mind working until you die.

It sounds wonderful.

 

[406dn]

Don't know where you get your information, but it's not accurate.

The top federal income tax rate in the U.S. is 37%, which applies to the highest earners (e.g., over $640,600 for single filers in 2026), though this is a marginal rate, meaning it only hits the top portion of income. The U.S. has seven federal income tax brackets (10%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, 35%, and 37%), with rates increasing as income rises.

At the end of Reagan's presidency (early 1989), the top marginal income tax rate was 28%, down from 70% at the start of his term, following the landmark Tax Reform Act of 1986, which also simplified the code and lowered the lowest rate to 15%. The capital gains tax rate was also significantly reduced to 20% by 1988, a major cut from 28%.

A few assertions about this.

IMO, this is the accelerant that set the course for where we find ourselves. These tax cuts, and every other one since, have resulted in additional debt. They have also made it easier for high earners to accumulate wealth. This is especially true since capital gains are treated even more favorably than earned income.

Before the tax cut during the Kennedy administration, the top rate was ~90%. That seems really punitive, but I think it alters human behavior. If I am employing you, at some point, giving you a raise is costly to me, and worthless to you. So it redirects capital. Maybe it goes back into the business or to a lower paid employee. Or, if I chose to give you the raise, it essentially goes to Uncle Sam.

The GOP figured out a winning formula. Throw a small tax cut at the lower income earners, and a very generous one to high income earners, and not making commensurate cuts in federal spending. The only time you hear them concerned about our monstrous mountain of debt, is when they don't hold power. So, in about one year, they will sing that hymn.

 

[BigHornRam]

Right, and $25 an hour isn't enough for a family of 4 to live on if you want your ol' lady raising the kids. Isn't that another big lie? We want stay at home Mom's to raise the kids? You know so they can be raised right?

Good luck on $25 an hour for a single family income...ain't happening, and that is a FACT.

That was not the case when I was growing up, and I'll prove it.

My Dad worked in a gdamn lumber mill all his life. In 1968 he was making about 12-13K a year at a lumber mill. Their first house they bought for $9,800 dollars, so roughly about what he cleared in a years worth of labor.

That same house in Missoula is now worth $500k...you think guys working at lumber mills (assuming they still existed) are making $550,000 a year to make enough to buy that house with a years wages?

At your $25/hour wage, it would only take them about 10 years of wages to do the same thing my Dad did in 1968 in one year...let that sink in for a moment and tell me how great $25/hour is. Tell me that the American Dream is alive and well.

Sorry, not buying it, neither are the people making $25/hour.

You have never made payroll, have you Buzz?
Going bankrupt doesn't help out the employees much.

 

[406dn]

25/hour = $52,0000 for a no skill job sounds pretty good to me especially if a person has the opportunity to learn new skills and advance.

I always enjoy this tell. Someone demeaning someone else's labor.

 

[BigHornRam]

Sure, as long as you don't mind renting, drive a broke down p.o.s. vehicle, take no vacations your whole life and don't mind working until you die.

It sounds wonderful.

It's a starting wage buzz. Wage goes up with experience and developed skills.

 

[rjthehunter]

HAHAHAHA. The rich don't DO salary.

3 Ways Trump’s Wealth Has Soared Since He Returned to Offic

Trump has enriched himself while in office like no other President in U.S. history. Here's why his net worth grew by billions in 2025

time.com

This paragraph below stood out to me. It should read... "Most modern Presidents before Trump prefer to keep their money making methods a secret." It is good to see someone staying the course. A businessman before presidency, and a businessman during presidency, and I bet $100 he'll be a businessman after presidency.

"Most modern Presidents before Trump put their assets into blind trusts or broadly diversified funds in order to avoid concerns from the public about the White House favoring policy decisions that would benefit a President financially. Trump didn’t do that for his first term, and hasn’t done that for his second. Since his inauguration a year ago, he’s continued to stay involved in his companies while also entering into new ventures that have soared in value."

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

If you can't see that Trump is enriching himself with his presidency, you might want to see an eye doctor.

And yes, they aren't exactly the same, but they are first cousins, maybe even siblings.

During the great depression, there was a cottage industry of kidnapping children from wealthy families. There is a reason so many very wealthy people live behind a gated enclosure. It does not promote a restful society when a very few have so much and a very large number have very little.

He and the ultra wealthy are not enriching themselves at my expense. Fact! Them having more does not equal me having less.

 

[Handlebar]

I always enjoy this tell. Someone demeaning someone else's labor

What a silly statement. What is the hourly wage for labor that would not be demeaning.

 

[BuzzH]

It's a starting wage buzz. Wage goes up with experience and developed skills.

Right, at a snails pace, rarely keeping up with inflation...or about 12% since 1978, as it were.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Sure, as long as you don't mind renting, drive a broke down p.o.s. vehicle, take no vacations your whole life and don't mind working until you die.

It sounds wonderful.

Once again this is factually false. Our shop laborers take vacations, drive cars to work, have families, have hobbies, get to hunt, fish, etc. Just like you and I. The ones with ambition and drive move to more skilled jobs, with a higher wage and get to take advantage of even more opportunities than they had as a laborer. Just like you did when you started out. Same as me. Sounds remarkably similar to how my father and mother made it through life. Bet it rings true for your family as well.

However, even the ones that want nothing more than the laborer responsibilities can benefit. To the same extent as a journeyman mechanic? Nope but that was their choice.

 

[The_Jim]

Right, at a snails pace, rarely keeping up with inflation...or about 12% since 1978, as it were.

Labo unions do the same thing for their entry level people...

Union Carpenter Pay Scale Throughout Apprenticeship​

Union carpenter pay scales during apprenticeship vary by local union, region, and collective bargaining agreements, but generally follow a progressive structure based on years of training and performance.

Typical Apprenticeship Wage Progression​

• First Year: Typically 60% of the journeyman wage rate.
• Second Year: Increases to 65–70%.
• Third Year: Rises to 75–80%.
• Fourth Year: Reaches 90–95% of the journeyman rate, often nearing full journeyman pay upon completion.

Regional Examples​

• NOR CAL Carpenters Union (Effective July 1, 2025):
  • 1st Period (0–6 months): 60% of journeyman wage, $39.76/hour.
  • 2nd Period (7–12 months): 65%, $43.07/hour.
  • 3rd Period (13–18 months): 70%, $46.38/hour.
  • 4th Period (19–24 months): 75%, $49.70/hour.
  • 5th–8th Periods (25–48 months): Progressively increases to 95%, $62.95/hour.
• Washington State (Effective June 1, 2024):
  • 1st Period (0–6 months): 60% of journeyman rate, $30.96/hour.
  • 8th Period (43–48 months): 95%, $52.50/hour.
• Chicago Region (Effective June 1, 2021):
  • 1st Year: 40% of journeyman wage, $20.34/hour.
  • 4th Year: 80%, $40.69/hou

 

[rjthehunter]

If you can't see that Trump is enriching himself with his presidency, you might want to see an eye doctor.

And yes, they aren't exactly the same, but they are first cousins, maybe even siblings.

During the great depression, there was a cottage industry of kidnapping children from wealthy families. There is a reason so many very wealthy people live behind a gated enclosure. It does not promote a restful society when a very few have so much and a very large number have very little.

You're brainwashed.

U.S. Presidents' Net Worth, Before and After Taking Office

Presidents have immense power, but that hasn’t always meant great wealth. You may be shocked at the exceptions to modern office-holders who know how to turn a buck.

www.aol.com

Look at all these career politicians. Milking the system for every penny its worth. But Trump is the bad guy! He certainly is using presidency to make more money. Hence his first term and his decrease in net worth.