APR on NPR

[Irrelevant]

Based on the sheer size the of the proposed "final product" I don't see how they would ever complete shut it down to hunting. Restrict it? Yeah, definitely, I can see them wanted to restrict hunting on their lands during the ruts (deer/elk/lope), but an area that size could support quite a few hunters and not slow the growth of the herd.

 

[JEL]

But who knows ... perhaps Senator John Brenden's fearful prediction of bison bulls running rampant across the NE Montana farms and ranches raping hereford purebred cows and trampling what sparse grain fields remain will be the case. His rationale makes as much sense as the hunting access doom and gloom.

Typical Brenden rant. Can't believe folks actually give this guy any credibility givin some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth. No way in hell he should be a public member (not elected) of a legislative committee with voting rights.

 

[BuzzH]

I have hunted on APR land and have no complaints about them or their mission.

I know, lets turn it over to the MTFWP, see if we can shoot every last deer and elk off it...

 

[Ben Lamb]

Snowy Mountains elk herd 800% over population shows Montana's challenge managing elk

One of the state’s largest elk herds roams across the Big and Little Snowy mountains of central Montana.

billingsgazette.com

It's funny to me that we have a group of folks who take all kinds of cash from people who create the situation in the story above for their political careers, and to try and end access programs & public ownership of land & wildlife, yet we argue about the intent of a group that's providing access to our public lands, and to their private lands through block management & perpetual access to the places where Habitat Montana easements exist. The recreation infrastructure they're building on the reserve isn't high priced. You can camp for $15 a night, rent RV spots w/ electricity & you can get a cabin or Yurt for less than it costs to stay in a motel and drive the hour out to the reserve for hunting.

Meanwhile, the billionaires from Texas are creating a situation in elk management that politicians will use to try and steal your elk away from you, and hand it over to outfitters & landowners. Because of the law that says you have to manage at or below objective, we're going to see a round of attacks on elk and public hunting not from the left, but from the right. I'm already hearing of plans to eliminate the elk archery permit through legislation, talks of ranching for wildlife and a more "texas" style management of wildlife.

That's what UPOM & the anti-access crowd they hang with want, and that's what they're working towards by distracting you with APR.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I have no idea if hunting will remain open or if it is closed off over time.

However they would have to give it careful consideration, if they decide to close it to hunting. Any significant donor who is pro hunting could cause all kinds of headaches that their donation was solicited under a false premise. They'd be taking it from yet another side, not a smart move when you already have no shortage of backlash with your mission.

PR problems, maybe. Legal problems, not. The bar is very high to claim back on a charitable donation. And charities are allowed to change focus and activities without being beholden to past givers. Absent a clear fraud (collecting money and running of to Vegas with it) this dog won’t hunt.

 

[theat]

I hesitate to share this link as it might decrease my odds next year, but here it its. Seems pretty crazy for an organization that is apparently "run by west coast liberals and anti hunting" to offer free bison hunts on their property.

16 drawn for American Prairie Reserve bison harvest

Montana hunters registered in droves for a chance to harvest a bison on the American Prairie Reserve in Eastern Montana.

billingsgazette.com

I have relatives that were wheat farmers in the Circle MT area. My uncle is very anti APR. Some of the claims he has made about how they have put him out of business are mind boggling. Somehow without it ever becoming public, APR has caused the railroad companies to mess with his grain shipments, their bison roam free 100's of miles from APR property and attack and trample children waiting for the bus near Circle, They fly around in black helicopters and chase all the elk onto places that they can't be hunted, etc...etc. He blames them for his farms failure instead of the real reasons. When his parents passed the farm was split up amongst all his siblings. He was the only one of 6 that stayed and ran the farm, but only got a 1/3 of the farm in the will. He went into major debt to lease and buy the rest back from his brothers and sisters. A few years later, a hail storm, too much moisture one year, too little the next and the they are bankrupt. Not sure how APR can be blamed in any way, but in his mind it was them and the rest of the liberals that did it to him. Of course they took full advantage of any kind of subsidy from the big bad government that they could all the way down to free school lunches for their kids. Just like we see all over farm/ranch country, their kids want nothing to do with running the farm.

 

[406dn]

I have to start reading the local paper more closely. I had no idea they are allowing a bison harvest on the reserve.

One of my outdoor passions is handling pointing dogs from a horse. Some years ago while running them on land that provides the solitude few areas can offer, I came around a hillside and a neighbor's bison herd was running down a coulee. It got my attention, big time. It was easy to imagine I was witnessing the past in real time.

There is no way to know how the APR will shake out over the years. It might fizzle out under its own weight, if donations dry up. It might actually succeed at preserving a slice of one of the rarest remaining natural ecosystems.

What will continue with or without the APR is the winnowing of human populations across the great plains, from north Texas, extending into Canada. There is no terrain I more enjoy spending time. But it a also evident that for the people who call it home, they have a very tough row to hoe. I admire the grit it takes to hang in there, but they'd better off to take their talent and grit to a location that doesn't take more than it gives.

 

[Eric Albus]

Each and everyone of you should read the latest issue of "Range" magazine.

 

[406dn]

Each and everyone of you should read the latest issue of "Range" magazine.

Well, you got me to google its website.

Sorry, I have to pass. There were several tells. I will say in fairness, I did not see an article on black helicopters.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Well, you got me to google its website.

Sorry, I have to pass. There were several tells. I will say in fairness, I did not see an article on black helicopters.

Lol it’s an extremely subtle publication... I really hate to say this but maybe Eric should stick to Fox News .

 

[theat]

Each and everyone of you should read the latest issue of "Range" magazine.

Yikes!!! I just did a quick tour of their website. Didn't see anything obvious about APR, but they are sure big fans of the Bundys and militias taking over public lands to "give back to the ranchers that it rightfully belongs to". Sad and a bit scary to think that this is the kind of stuff that ranching publications are putting out there.

 

[HighWildFree]

Each and everyone of you should read the latest issue of "Range" magazine.

No, I don't think I will. Huffing gas is an easier way to kill brain cells.

 

[Eric Albus]

LOL wllm, I did laugh at that.

I do bother to listen to a different point of view from time to time, like on MSNBC yesterday morning they touted a Bloomberg ad that stated that there have been 263 school shootings since Trump took office. So there is an easier way than huffing gas to kill brain cells.

Range is no doubt out there on some subjects. Those of us who live here were given the latest copy by a couple local business' to look over. Those of us who live here pretty much see the article and editorial from ground level as telling it like it is, no matter how far out some of their articles are.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Range is no doubt out there on some subjects. Those of us who live here were given the latest copy by a couple local business' to look over. Those of us who live here pretty much see the article and editorial from ground level as telling it like it is, no matter how far out some of their articles are.

There's a significant amount of misinformation in that article, especially around the brucellosis non-issue. UPOM has proven they either don't know what they're talking about, or they simply don't care because they feel that they're building political capital with their lies & deceit.

There are real issues facing Agricutlure right now, and yes, land prices are a huge part of that. But if you look at land prices inside the APR project area and outside, especially in Phillips Co, those land prices aren't keeping up with the increases in other areas. Between floods, drought, lack of markets, trade wars, tarriffs, meat packers, foriegn competition inside the USA, etc, family ag is having a rough time. To blame APR for that is silly, and it ignores the real issues facing Eastern MT as it relates to having a better economy, and a better path forward for the next generation of family farners and ranchers.

 

[Schaaf]

Those of us who live here pretty much see the article and editorial from ground level as telling it like it is, no matter how far out some of their articles are.

Several people that “live here” have weighed in on this thread. But that’s right, those opinions don’t count.

 

[El Jason]

There's a significant amount of misinformation in that article, especially around the brucellosis non-issue. UPOM has proven they either don't know what they're talking about, or they simply don't care because they feel that they're building political capital with their lies & deceit.

There are real issues facing Agricutlure right now, and yes, land prices are a huge part of that. But if you look at land prices inside the APR project area and outside, especially in Phillips Co, those land prices aren't keeping up with the increases in other areas. Between floods, drought, lack of markets, trade wars, tarriffs, meat packers, foriegn competition inside the USA, etc, family ag is having a rough time. To blame APR for that is silly, and it ignores the real issues facing Eastern MT as it relates to having a better economy, and a better path forward for the next generation of family farners and ranchers.

Much more value in focusing on these issue than a boogeyman like APR.

Some of these simply aren’t fixable, but some are and deserve effort and attention.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

LOL wllm, I did laugh at that.

I do bother to listen to a different point of view from time to time, like on MSNBC yesterday morning they touted a Bloomberg ad that stated that there have been 263 school shootings since Trump took office. So there is an easier way than huffing gas to kill brain cells.

Range is no doubt out there on some subjects. Those of us who live here were given the latest copy by a couple local business' to look over. Those of us who live here pretty much see the article and editorial from ground level as telling it like it is, no matter how far out some of their articles are.

Nobody wants to read a long winded diatribe from me on a magazine. Suffice to say any publication that promotes hate speech immediately loses all credibility in my book.

 

[hossblur]

Gentlemen. Look south. UTAH.

1. We seem to be a few decades ahead of you guys. Those ranches that offer limited hunting. At some point that hunting will pay more than cows. When that happens, ANY public access is gone. UTAH CWMU system.

2.Ranchers die. It's awesome if they do offer some access. Can you guarantee it next year? If you do have some iron glad guarantee then great. Otherwise your access ended this year. Next year there are tons of variables, any if which "shut the gate"

3. The Great Salt Lake ecosystem is hugely important for waterfowl. The Nature Conservancy has been buying wide swaths. We heard all the same hand wringing. I hunt that land yearly. AND. It's not being sold to developers.

Not Utah related

1. There is a serious ammount of money and effort being pumped into lab grown meat. As scary as that sounds, we all know when it hits markets, the beef industry is crashing. Banks that repossess don't allow hunting.

Last. I'm really sympathetic to growers. I eat food. But times do change. The markets have changed. My friends grow hay to ship to Saudi Arabia. Somehow the "my grand daddy did it this way" attitude is either going to change, or the market will change it. Somehow ranching seems to believe it's in some time bubble. As the neighbors use GPS to plow. Satellites to predict weather, etc, etc. The vast majority of ranches have changed. They haven't adapted.

Look at how many new hunters/fishermen have come on board seeking clean food. Organics. Whatever.

"Beef, it's what for dinner" isn't true.

Sad to say but niche markets are likely beefs actual future. Which is going to mean the loss of a way of life, whether APR or the Wilks but it.

You know the 10000% answer with the Wilks.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Actually got a chance to hunt on elk on a Nature Conservancy property recently, similar hand wringing you alluded to when that property was purchased.

 

[Ben Lamb]

You know the 10000% answer with the Wilks.

Yep.

More access to public land blocked

Residents are upset about gates blocking roads near Crouch.

www.kivitv.com

Wilks are funding a lot of the anti-APR work, btw.