American prairie. What's the issue?

[BuzzH]

I highly doubt that the ranches AP bought were off limits before AP bought them. They likely were not open to the general public, but someone was hunting them and it was probably quite a few hunters. If you are a family and friends kind of ranch, you find out how many friends you have come hunting season. Outfitters need to cover expenses and are hunting their leases hard. Many ranches that are outfitted are hunted harder by the outfitter than they ever were before they were leased. Having less than half open to hunting is not nearly the deal I thought AP was. Very possible that fewer people are hunting AP now than hunted there before AP bought those places.

That's whats enrolled in block. You're also not considering that some of the remaining lands are hunted through limited access controlled by AP through a drawing. Also, you're not considering the thousands of acres of State and Federal lands they allow people to access through their property.

Plus, is it really a bad thing that some of their property isn't pounded on for 12 weeks?

You complain all the time about over hunting, then turn around and complain that every acre AP has isnt enrolled in block.

Circular logic.

 

[Straight Arrow]

As a Montanan forever supportive and proud of the cattle industry in this state, it pains me to see Montana Stockgrowers and the Governor's office tainted by the false information, unwarranted negativity, and even phobia perpetrated by UPOM regarding American Prairie.

 

[Rack Daniels]

Is that low as to their holdings?

Yes

 

[Nunjagottam]

I highly doubt that the ranches AP bought were off limits before AP bought them. They likely were not open to the general public, but someone was hunting them and it was probably quite a few hunters. If you are a family and friends kind of ranch, you find out how many friends you have come hunting season. Outfitters need to cover expenses and are hunting their leases hard. Many ranches that are outfitted are hunted harder by the outfitter than they ever were before they were leased. Having less than half open to hunting is not nearly the deal I thought AP was. Very possible that fewer people are hunting AP now than hunted there before AP bought those places.

So, based on your ASSumtion; AP has displaced a massive group of good ol' boy ranchers' buddies and some over harvesting outfitters. The likes of which were probably die hard pickup truck/atv hunters who piss-pounded the terrain for 5 weeks straight blasting away at whatever they had a tag for?
Not seeing the downside

 

[Irrelevant]

Very possible that fewer people are hunting AP now than hunted there before AP bought those places.

Also very possible that more people are hunting it. And regardless of the actual number, substantially more is open for the opportunity of all people to hunt, hike, or pass through than historically.

 

[Rack Daniels]

The likes of which were probably pickup truck/atv hunters who piss-pounded the terrain for 5 weeks straight blasting away at whatever they had a tag for?

How’s that for an ASSumption

 

[BuzzH]

How’s that for an ASSumption

Blue Ridge was poached heavily by the previous owner...not an assumption. Its also now a draw through AP that allows hunting.

Bad thing?

 

[OlWhitcombPlace]

how can a guy research what sort of beef to buy? Ranchers that do this this and this as opposed to ranchers that do this this and this and what do we look for?

Basically, if you know your beef comes off a ranch where you can imagine shooting a pronghorn, that's what you want to buy. I wouldn't bother trying to do deep dives into that ranch's specific management practices. Because beef that flows through the big processors can't be tracked to its origin that usually means buying something that has a specific ranch with location on the label, or simply buying direct from the producer. Nearly everything in a typical grocery store that is unlabeled with respect to origin spent its life on a feedlot and in general was quite harmful to biodiversity/wildlife habitat.

Andy

 

[BrentD]

Basically, if you know your beef comes off a ranch where you can imagine shooting a pronghorn, that's what you want to buy. I wouldn't bother trying to do deep dives into that ranch's specific management practices. Because beef that flows through the big processors can't be tracked to its origin that usually means buying something that has a specific ranch with location on the label, or simply buying direct from the producer. Nearly everything in a typical grocery store that is unlabeled with respect to origin spent its life on a feedlot and in general was quite harmful to biodiversity/wildlife habitat.

Andy

Keep in mind that if all those feed lot beeves had to be grazed on public land or even private land, there would be hell to pay for pronghorns.

 

[OlWhitcombPlace]

Keep in mind that if all those feed lot beeves had to be grazed on public land or even private land, there'd be hell to pay for pronghorns.

Said another way; if you forced all cattle production onto grassland pastures to maximize the conservation value of beef you would need to reduce total beef supply dramatically.

Andy

 

[BrentD]

Said another way; if you forced all cattle production onto grassland pastures to maximize the conservation value of beef you would need to reduce total beef supply dramatically.

Andy

At or reduce, total supply of humans dramatically. Ultimately, that is the only real solution.And it is the only one we can ever talk about.

 

[OlWhitcombPlace]

@OlWhitcombPlace do you have begin and current progress pictures of the rangeland

No, photo points are generally not useful for doing comparisons over time because it's really easy to bias them by taking photos just after a period of intensive grazing, or during a drought, or right after an abnormally wet winter...etc. For analyses of long-term vegetation change over time at large scales, the gold standard is remotely-sensed data (pictures from satellites). A relatively accessible example is the Rangeland Analysis Platform (https://rangelands.app/)

Andy