American prairie. What's the issue?

[DFS]

As long as bison have ample space and good grass, a good five round wire wildlife friendly fence has proven to work well.

View attachment 399654

That’s borderline high fence imo have you watched elk try to get across a low fence.

 

[Straight Arrow]

That’s borderline high fence imo have you watched elk try to get across a low fence.

Yes, deer and elk cross it. Not often, but there has been damage to the fence by large numbers of elk crossing. Even when damaged, the bison are not interested in crossing.

Is your opinion argumentative and/or do you wish to share information?

 

[DFS]

Yes, deer and elk cross it. Not often, but there has been damage to the fence by large numbers of elk crossing. Even when damaged, the bison are not interested in crossing.

Is your opinion argumentative and/or do you wish to share information?

It’s everything that is wrong with western Montana. You build chit in wintering areas impede wildlife travel with high fences and then turn around bitch about low wildlife numbers on public land and come to the east and rape and pillage every November.

 

[mtmuley]

Yes, deer and elk cross it. Not often, but there has been damage to the fence by large numbers of elk crossing. Even when damaged, the bison are not interested in crossing.

Is your opinion argumentative and/or do you wish to share information?

I'm gonna listen to @OlWhitcombPlace. mtmuley

 

[Straight Arrow]

Wildlife move freely across bison grazing areas' fences, so there is disagreement with the argumentative perspective about those fences.
Your angst is clearly understood, and even agreed upon, but it has very little to do with western Montana "high fences".

BTW, I don't "build chit" anywhere.

 

[DFS]

Wildlife move freely across bison grazing areas' fences, so there is disagreement with the argumentative perspective about those fences.
Your angst is clearly understood, and even agreed upon, but it has very little to do with western Montana "high fences".

BTW, I don't "build chit" anywhere.

I’ve watched enough wildlife cross fences to know that fence would not be wildlife friendly. I am for keeping things as they are so in that aspect I have became more receptive to APR. But at the end of the day the money is coming from people that have destroyed their back yard and into places where there is still good people that would never destroy their back yard.

 

[OlWhitcombPlace]

As long as bison have ample space and good grass, a good six round wire wildlife friendly fence has proven to work well.

View attachment 399654

This looks like Turner. AP uses 4 wire wildlife friendly including a hot 2nd wire from top.

Andy

 

[DFS]

This looks like Turner. AP uses 4 wire wildlife friendly including a hot 2nd wire from top.

Andy

Is there any studies on these fences regarding deer elk and antelope movement?

 

[OlWhitcombPlace]

Is their any studies on these fences regarding deer elk and antelope movement?

Yes, although not my area of expertise. Some results looking strictly at variations on 4-wire are here:

Frontiers | How did the deer cross the fence: An evaluation of wildlife-friendlier fence modifications to facilitate deer movement

Fences are a common feature throughout the landscape of North America’s Great Plains region. Knowledge surrounding the harmful implication that fences have o...

www.frontiersin.org

Key takeaway is that crossing success in WT and Mule Deer in eastern MT increases as the bottom-wire height increases.

https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/wsb.1067

Same takeaways except also shows no negative impacts of sage grouse flagging or PVC on the top-wire on likelihood of deer crossing.

https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/wsb.869

Pronghorn specific. Raise the bottom wire and make it smooth. Goat bars don't help they hurt.

I'm not aware of studies that include 6-wire or woven wire, but they are obviously a greater impediment to ungulates.

This is a cool paper that just shows how ubiquitous fence encounters are for ungulates in the western US, and how much they change movement behavior. One snippet -- "We found both species were extensively affected by fences, with nearly 40% of fence encounters altering their normal movements, though pronghorn were more strongly affected than mule deer. On average, an individual pronghorn encountered fences 250 times a year—twice the encounter rate of mule deer. Pronghorn were more likely to bounce away from fences, whereas deer engaged in more back-and-forth, trace and average movement near fences."

https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1365-2664.13806?_gl=1*u18web*_gcl_au*Mjg2OTU5MDYyLjE3NjQ4ODUyNTkuNzk5MjA2NzY4LjE3NjQ4ODU2MzMuMTc2NDg4NTY0Mw..*_ga*MTcyMzQ4NzAwMS4xNzY0ODg1MjU5*_ga_9C4T5P6PP6*czE3NjkzNzM4NjUkbzMkZzEkdDE3NjkzNzM5ODgkajQ5JGwwJGgyMzc2NTA5MjE.

Andy

 

[El Jason]

@OlWhitcombPlace

Andy,

Thank you for coming here to provide your expertise. It’s a breath of fresh air.