Alternatives for public elk hunting access

[BigHornRam]

Known liberal progressive enclaves like AR, MO, MN, and IA have been able to do it. And I'll throw in the woke hippie legislature of GA. I thought the West cared about conservation?

City of Whitefish voted to raise their local sales tax for this project. Most of the people their are affluent, outdoors oriented, and this property is the source of their drinking water. Most of Montana is not Whitefish,and a state sales tax would be DOA.

Haskill Basin Conservation Easement Finalized - Flathead Beacon

For years, conservation groups and city officials have recognized the development pressure that could bear down on Haskill Basin, a block of land east of Whitefish owned by F.H. Stoltze Land and Lumber Co. And for years, those concerns were quelled by a good-faith agreement with the Stoltze...

flatheadbeacon.com

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I thought the West cared about conservation?

Can o'worms right there.

Montana currently has no sales tax, good luck.

Colorado has one of the lowest in the nation 2.9%, and we have a state amendment that prohibits our state agency from using sales tax money for wildlife and state lands are not open to the public.

Wyoming, Idaho, and Utah, those states reps and senators are the public land transfer crowd... so that's gonna be a non starter, they want less public land not more.

 

[beginnerhunter]

City of Whitefish voted to raise their local sales tax for this project. Most of the people their are affluent, outdoors oriented, and this property is the source of their drinking water. Most of Montana is not Whitefish,and a state sales tax would be DOA.

Haskill Basin Conservation Easement Finalized - Flathead Beacon

For years, conservation groups and city officials have recognized the development pressure that could bear down on Haskill Basin, a block of land east of Whitefish owned by F.H. Stoltze Land and Lumber Co. And for years, those concerns were quelled by a good-faith agreement with the Stoltze...

flatheadbeacon.com

Well my ironic joke was that Arkansas, Missouri, and Georgia aren't thought of as affluent progressive states but fairly poor red states. And they got the public to support these taxes.

Sorry this a little tangential to the OP, but I bring this up any time we are discussing wildlife, access, and revenue. Point is I think people are too dismissive of the concept of a conservation sales tax. I think it can be sold to the general public if done in a way that provides benefits to all parties. Who doesn't love parks, wildlife, and hunting access?

 

[beginnerhunter]

Can o'worms right there.

Montana currently has no sales tax, good luck.

Colorado has one of the lowest in the nation 2.9%, and we have a state amendment that prohibits our state agency from using sales tax money for wildlife and state lands are not open to the public.

For real? What an oddly specific thing to do. It's like how Delores Umbridge kept making new rules that were obviously targeting Harry.

 

[BWALKER77]

Why can't you just enact a statewide sales tax and pay landowners for access or purchase land straight up (especially those adjacent to landlocked public land)? In other states they also use some of the money for other outdoor programs to help sell it to non-hunters. Problem solved. You're welcome.

How about forgoing the sales tax thing and raising license prices 5 fold, including non residents.

 

[BRI]

The better minds above have very good suggestions. Just curious, does anyone think a very well thought out, un-biased survey/questionnaire that targeted a wide range of hunters (even possibly landowners) asking good un-biased questions would be beneficial? I know most surveys can be written to achieve a desired result but I think it could be valuable to judge the climate of if the average hunter could support major changes. I talk to very few hunters that are overall satisfied with the way things are currently. Most want better.

Just a thought I've had for a while.

 

[BigHornRam]

Montana is a really poor GDI state and a state sales tax is a no go right now. 10 more years of California immigration and that could change, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Ben Lamb]

People are able to fight the good fight for public land while still fighting the good fight for mutual value between private landowners and public opportunities.

The elk flourishing on public lands - as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong @Ben Lamb , for MT sake, FWP has been granted the budget for the purpose of creating a new Elk/Deer Management Program.

Yep. The budget for FWP included allocation of funding for the hire of a full time deer & elk planner, whic also freed up funding for a full time grizzly bear planner. The EMP revision process will start in 2020, or so that's my understanding.

 

[SAJ-99]

The Master Hunter Program seems like a reasonable approach, but you can only clear so many hunters through the program due to the limited locations it is taught and limited participation. I didn’t know anything about the program until this post. I would be happy to participate if I didn't have to drive 4 hours to do it.

It seems the problem trying to be solved on this thread is private land sheltering elk who end up causing problems for landowners and access to huntable land for hunters. Here are a couple of ideas that are easy to implement.

• Block Management- ask landowners that don’t want hunters if they will allow corner crossing. They can paint a fence post yellow and say you have to cross within a 20yd radius of the post. You end up with Type I, Type II, and Corner Crossing BMAs. That should open up some inaccessible public land.
• BLM and State land - Put up more road use restriction signs – and enforce them. Enforce the 10am-2pm game retrieval rules for roads on the BLM sections. Make hunters walk. When hunters walk by elk they run 100yds, when they drive by them in ATVs they go a mile.
• Hunters - stop being jerks. Don’t drive on dirt two tracks after a rain, ripping them apart. Take ethical shots, pick up your trash, don’t burn down the forest, and wave to people when you drive by them on the dirt road 20 miles from town. Basically, be a reasonably good human being.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

For real? What an oddly specific thing to do. It's like how Delores Umbridge kept making new rules that were obviously targeting Harry.

I over simplified, it's complex. The state did an extensive study on this issue, Colorado funding study.

A sales tax was considered in the study, they don't dive into the nitty gritty either, but it has to do with TABOR in Colorado.

I oft feel like Douglas Bruce (author and primary actor in passing the law), was the Umbridge of Colorado... funny parallel, he went to prison, although unfortunately not for life like Umbridge.

But I mean, money laundering, attempted bribery of a public official, tax fraud... who cares.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Here is the list of available programs for landowners in MT:

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks :: Montana Landowners

Programs and resources for Montana Landowners

fwp.mt.gov

FWP currently has broad authority and available programs that fit a lot of the ideas being floated here. That's a critical component of making changes without having to go through the political battles in the legislature. If it requires rule changes or commission action, it can be done easier than through the legislature.

 

[hank4elk]

Here is the list of available programs for landowners in MT:

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks :: Montana Landowners

Programs and resources for Montana Landowners

fwp.mt.gov

FWP currently has broad authority and available programs that fit a lot of the ideas being floated here. That's a critical component of making changes without having to go through the political battles in the legislature. If it requires rule changes or commission action, it can be done easier than through the legislature.

That's quite a list!

 

[npaden]

I think that having an 11 week continuous season is a big part of Montana's problems with deer/elk. There is no chance for them to ever feel comfortable on public land once the first day of the season opens and outfitters on private land can really control the hunting pressure by spreading it out over the entire 11 weeks. If the season was shortened they would have to ramp the pressure up on private lands to get the $$ they would over the longer season so that the pressure on private land was almost equal to the pressure on public.

I doubt very much that the average hunter in Montana would ever be for that though, until it gets so bad they are talking about 2019 being the glory days.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Quite frankly from what I’ve seen, the properties that are sanctuary areas are owned by people who for their own reasons actually want more elk and see them as an asset rather than a problem. They might be outfitted or nature lovers or whatever reason they have they are managing their property to keep more elk rather than less. More state programs aren’t going to open a significant amount of these properties.

It’s their neighbors who don’t like it when the elk come from sanctuary at night and eat their grass and break their fences.

FWP’s solution of using shoulder seasons and intense pressure on BMA’s and public lands only intensifies the problem and kills off the “good” elk that would have stayed on public without so much pressure.
Hunters are attracted to open BMA’s and shoulder seasons with the hopes of an easy elk. The BMA owner gets his check for allowing access, FWP makes more money by selling B licenses. The elk keep increasing on sanctuary properties and the circle continues.
The people complaining about too many elk have a neighbor problem, not an elk problem.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

GM....can you name ANY big block land owners that have created a private land elk sanctuary that are the NO HUNTING nature lovers type? OR, are they all running some form of wildlife commercial venture??

 

[Irrelevant]

GM....can you name ANY big block land owners that have created a private land elk sanctuary that are the NO HUNTING nature lovers type? OR, are they all running some form of wildlife commercial venture??

APR?

 

[Mtnhunter1]

APR?

Now that would not surprise me at all in a decade or two!

 

[BigHornRam]

Improvement of public land habitat has been mentioned as an option.

It's taking place right now.

State, Feds Ramp-Up 'Good Neighbor' Timber Projects

The state and the U.S. Forest Service plan to ramp up a program on Montana’s national forests that uses timber sales with restoration components to fund…

www.mtpr.org

 

[Ben Lamb]

GNA is a good step, but it doesn't address a lot of the issues that need to be tackled, especially outside of the Mountain side of the state.

 

[daltrix99]

GM....can you name ANY big block land owners that have created a private land elk sanctuary that are the NO HUNTING nature lovers type? OR, are they all running some form of wildlife commercial venture??

There is one along the upper Clark Fork near Drummond, but someone here may have more recent information on hunting access. The last information I had when hunting around there was that a very small group of friends and family would occasionally hunt it, but that was not constant, and it was not outfitted.