throwin brass
New member
any one ever heard of hiring a resident hunter as a guide rather than an outfitter for sheep goat or bear hunt?
alaska guides?
- Thread starter throwin brass
- Start date
Moosie
Grand poopa
Yes, I have... But, those people go to jail 
Although most of us ... or some of us at least , could go up there and do fine, Laws are laws unfortunately.
Although most of us ... or some of us at least , could go up there and do fine, Laws are laws unfortunately.
Moosie
Grand poopa
There are less wolves in Idaho too then there would have been if deaths were caused by natural causes. I'm not saying either doesn't happen, or one is my pref or not. I'm saying 'tis against the law to hire a resident.
Now, to "GO WITH" a resident and "BACK ONE UP", thats legal
Now, to "GO WITH" a resident and "BACK ONE UP", thats legal
Doesnt matter if somebody goes with a resident and gets backed up on a sheep, goat or brown bear hunt, the non-res still needs a guide to hunt them legally, unless they have family up here that are residents. I dont make the rules.
Dont like it, Blame the guides. Hell, most of the folks in the lower 48 are more than capable than some of the knucklehead residents up here, but that would be taking $$ out of the guides pocket.
Dont like it, Blame the guides. Hell, most of the folks in the lower 48 are more than capable than some of the knucklehead residents up here, but that would be taking $$ out of the guides pocket.
Wyodeerhunter
Banned
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I totally agree. There are many hunters in the lower 48 that are capable of hunting in Alaska without a guide. BUT the folks in the Upper 48 will have no clue on what they are doing.
Hawaii gets no love.
Moosie
Grand poopa
LBG, did they change that ? I heard that if a resident shoots a bear that even a nonresident could shoot it at that point to put it down. I know several guys that have gone on a trip. They weren't hunting the bear, just backing up the resident.....
Thats one of those real grey lines. Techincally, if the residents pulls the trigger and the non-res starts putting lead into it drop it, IMO, the hunting stops after the first shot. I havent seen a law yet where a non-res cannot go brown bear (etc) hunting as a tag along, as long as the resident (or legal hunter) is the primary.
If a trooper comes up to you after the kill, Depending on the trooper, he may grill the hell out of you. Of course he has to prove everything (that could be the grey area).
If a trooper comes up to you after the kill, Depending on the trooper, he may grill the hell out of you. Of course he has to prove everything (that could be the grey area).
Moosie
Grand poopa
I'm not saying (Once again) Whether I think it's right or not, I'm jsut saying there is a way.
throwin brass
New member
thanks i understand the laws now. im a young gun and was just curious. i guess i miss read the laws and thought u only had to have a guide or a resident with u. but i get it now thanks again
Moosie
Grand poopa
LBG, If we're going to be honest on the board, I thing the Law Blows. I don't dislike it enough to go fight it, So I'll find ways for me, to get around them. There aren't many laws that you can't skirt and still obtain the result you want. Sometimes you just need to work outside of the box
I was fortunate to have my dad live in AK for a couple years to go get my Brown bear. Now I'd have to play "GREY" or pay big bucks for my other two.
Throwin' Brass, Nothing wrong with asking. It's better to ask then to do and get busted. There are pleanty of guys willing to take you for some Coin. You just have to understand it could be illegal. Is paying 1/2 the price worth losing your hunting licence? Trust me it's not. We do everything we can on this board to let people know what is legal or not. Some follow it, Some do not.
That wass actually a good question. Good luck in upcoming hunts !!
I was fortunate to have my dad live in AK for a couple years to go get my Brown bear. Now I'd have to play "GREY" or pay big bucks for my other two.
Throwin' Brass, Nothing wrong with asking. It's better to ask then to do and get busted. There are pleanty of guys willing to take you for some Coin. You just have to understand it could be illegal. Is paying 1/2 the price worth losing your hunting licence? Trust me it's not. We do everything we can on this board to let people know what is legal or not. Some follow it, Some do not.
That wass actually a good question. Good luck in upcoming hunts !!
guppie9
New member
Just make sure it is a reputable guide. From yesterday's paper:
Personally, I think this guy got off waaaaayyyy too light. He is a guide and should know better than to shoot an animal out of season. I think his guiding license should have been permanently revoked instead of just for 5 years.
Remember, you, as the client, are ultimately responsible for following the law.
Personally, I think this guy got off waaaaayyyy too light. He is a guide and should know better than to shoot an animal out of season. I think his guiding license should have been permanently revoked instead of just for 5 years.
Remember, you, as the client, are ultimately responsible for following the law.
BRWNBR
New member
YEEEEHHAAAA Byler finally got busted....he's been a bandit in alaska for years, glad to see something finally happened to him geez.
guides and money...ahh the debat will rage forever.
change the guide requirment....lotta hunters, lotta drawing hunts, lotta ticked off alaskans....limited opportunity....then alaska looks like the lower 49 come hunting season.
keep the requirement....fewer hunters, better hunting, still limited opportunity (read money!) over the counter hunting, uncongested areas, helps AK industry and alot of guys who are trying to run a business and create opportunitys for outside hunters to have a great hunt and great chance at fullfilling a dream they are willing to save for.
we can't always have what we want when we want it, best way to face that is complain about the system. there are alot of great hunters in the lower 48 but on the flip side of the coin i havent' had a client yet who didn't think any grizz was a big grizz, seen some pics posted on here of bears guys have seen on deer hunts that they thought were huge an looked to me like medium sized sow bears. theres always more to learn when you hunt bears.
Theres pros and cons to the guide requirment but it was actually enacted in early 1900's to help prevent want and waste of game....
still does in a sense.
guides and money...ahh the debat will rage forever.
change the guide requirment....lotta hunters, lotta drawing hunts, lotta ticked off alaskans....limited opportunity....then alaska looks like the lower 49 come hunting season.
keep the requirement....fewer hunters, better hunting, still limited opportunity (read money!) over the counter hunting, uncongested areas, helps AK industry and alot of guys who are trying to run a business and create opportunitys for outside hunters to have a great hunt and great chance at fullfilling a dream they are willing to save for.
we can't always have what we want when we want it, best way to face that is complain about the system. there are alot of great hunters in the lower 48 but on the flip side of the coin i havent' had a client yet who didn't think any grizz was a big grizz, seen some pics posted on here of bears guys have seen on deer hunts that they thought were huge an looked to me like medium sized sow bears. theres always more to learn when you hunt bears.
Theres pros and cons to the guide requirment but it was actually enacted in early 1900's to help prevent want and waste of game....
still does in a sense.
Moosie
Grand poopa
BrwnBr, So, Are you saying if someone shoots a Medium size Brown bear that they aren't a real hunter or haven't gone on a real AK hunt ? If someone goes to Kodiak and doesn't kill a booner deer it's also not right ?
Also, Just because you don't require a guide doesn't mean it will be over hunted. Seriously, that wass lame, Please don't use that one again. To keep fewer hunters you put in Quota's and use draws. No difference in what's in place right now, Just that a guy that doesn't have 10k to hire an outfitter has a chance to hunt. The way it's set up now is it's a Rich mans sport. Do I sound Bitter ? Hell yes I'm bitter. I have to work for 5 years to save enough money to give a guy I don't even know money to serve me food and say pull the trigger.
What is the differnce in judging a 50"+ moose and deciding what goat to pull the trigger on ? The difference is it's harder to judge a 50" moose. Yet lower 48's do it all the time.
When I come up and hunt with you, because I will. I know we're going to have a good time. T-bone and me are similar in nature and he said you are a great man. I'm looknig forward to it. But, HAVING to hire you is the part that sucks.
I'm OK with good reasons to make people hire guides.... I just haven't heard any yet.
Also, Just because you don't require a guide doesn't mean it will be over hunted. Seriously, that wass lame, Please don't use that one again. To keep fewer hunters you put in Quota's and use draws. No difference in what's in place right now, Just that a guy that doesn't have 10k to hire an outfitter has a chance to hunt. The way it's set up now is it's a Rich mans sport. Do I sound Bitter ? Hell yes I'm bitter. I have to work for 5 years to save enough money to give a guy I don't even know money to serve me food and say pull the trigger.
What is the differnce in judging a 50"+ moose and deciding what goat to pull the trigger on ? The difference is it's harder to judge a 50" moose. Yet lower 48's do it all the time.
When I come up and hunt with you, because I will. I know we're going to have a good time. T-bone and me are similar in nature and he said you are a great man. I'm looknig forward to it. But, HAVING to hire you is the part that sucks.
I'm OK with good reasons to make people hire guides.... I just haven't heard any yet.
Wyodeerhunter
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2002
- Messages
- 2,150
you had me here...
but lost me here
.I agree with moosie about the law. I don't like it but I can't do anthing about it. Oh wait I did...
I moved up here
I just wish my hunting trips ended the way all of BRWNRS does...
BRWNBR
New member
I said lower 48 the second time, cause i rethought it and wasn't sure there were any real hunters in texas
Moosie, i'm saying trophy quality will dwindle because alot of medium sized bears and sows will be getting shot. just lack of experience, same with watching me try to field judge a whitetail....
..."because you don't require a guide doesn't mean it will be over hunted. Seriously, that wass lame, Please don't use that one again. To keep fewer hunters you put in Quota's and use draws. No difference in what's in place right now, Just that a guy that doesn't have 10k to hire an outfitter has a chance to hunt. The way it's set up now is it's a Rich mans sport. Do I sound Bitter ? Hell yes I'm bitter. I have to work for 5 years to save enough money to give a guy I don't even know money to serve me food and say pull the trigger."
I'm pretty sure i said hunt quality would drop, THEN quotas would be implemented, or implied that at least. Quotas and draws, limited opportunity...just more whiners would be hunting rather than all these rich guys...like T Bone right? those rich guys? or the guys who know how to budget whats important to them.
I don't have 10K for a new truck, don't mean i can't save and do it, so what if it takes me five years, i don't feel i have any right to just be able to walk out and afford a new truck every year. same deal, you want the guide requirement dropped for the next reason you mentioned RICH MAN...
You can a guide to be a hunting buddy, or you can hire a guide to give you food and tell you to pull the trigger, how you spend that five year savings is up to you....do some research before and investment, guided hunts are the same way.
"What is the differnce in judging a 50"+ moose and deciding what goat to pull the trigger on ? The difference is it's harder to judge a 50" moose. Yet lower 48's do it all the time."
Good for them, not sure what your point is, guide requirment isn't there because guys MIGHT shoot a moose 2 inches short...it was put there to keep people from doing something dumb..like dropping a moose in a lake, loosing half the meat cause it takes them two days to get it out, or dropping a moose across a creek they didn't know was there, getting lazy on a pile of meat and letting a bear hit it so they can just pack out the antlers in a couple days...blah blah theres some reasons, you'll call them lame, just because you HAVE some hunting expereince, but if you drop the guide requirement you'll get some bonifide nut jobs running out there to "live the dream".
"When I come up and hunt with you, because I will. I know we're going to have a good time. T-bone and me are similar in nature and he said you are a great man. I'm looknig forward to it. But, HAVING to hire you is the part that sucks."
But i've got five years to wait right? or are you rich man in disguise?? T-Bone told me about your disguises....<wink wink> lol
"I'm OK with good reasons to make people hire guides.... I just haven't heard any yet."
People who care about the land they walk on and don't treat it like a disposable land fill....a hunting buddy with local knowledge on weather, meat care, terrian, bears, saftey procedures, someone to call your shots when it takes you around 25 shots to hit a sheep, a shoulder to cry on, a friend when....oh wait, gotta little off track, started to reminise about my hunt with T-bone!!
Moosie, i'm saying trophy quality will dwindle because alot of medium sized bears and sows will be getting shot. just lack of experience, same with watching me try to field judge a whitetail....
..."because you don't require a guide doesn't mean it will be over hunted. Seriously, that wass lame, Please don't use that one again. To keep fewer hunters you put in Quota's and use draws. No difference in what's in place right now, Just that a guy that doesn't have 10k to hire an outfitter has a chance to hunt. The way it's set up now is it's a Rich mans sport. Do I sound Bitter ? Hell yes I'm bitter. I have to work for 5 years to save enough money to give a guy I don't even know money to serve me food and say pull the trigger."
I'm pretty sure i said hunt quality would drop, THEN quotas would be implemented, or implied that at least. Quotas and draws, limited opportunity...just more whiners would be hunting rather than all these rich guys...like T Bone right? those rich guys? or the guys who know how to budget whats important to them.
I don't have 10K for a new truck, don't mean i can't save and do it, so what if it takes me five years, i don't feel i have any right to just be able to walk out and afford a new truck every year. same deal, you want the guide requirement dropped for the next reason you mentioned RICH MAN...
You can a guide to be a hunting buddy, or you can hire a guide to give you food and tell you to pull the trigger, how you spend that five year savings is up to you....do some research before and investment, guided hunts are the same way.
"What is the differnce in judging a 50"+ moose and deciding what goat to pull the trigger on ? The difference is it's harder to judge a 50" moose. Yet lower 48's do it all the time."
Good for them, not sure what your point is, guide requirment isn't there because guys MIGHT shoot a moose 2 inches short...it was put there to keep people from doing something dumb..like dropping a moose in a lake, loosing half the meat cause it takes them two days to get it out, or dropping a moose across a creek they didn't know was there, getting lazy on a pile of meat and letting a bear hit it so they can just pack out the antlers in a couple days...blah blah theres some reasons, you'll call them lame, just because you HAVE some hunting expereince, but if you drop the guide requirement you'll get some bonifide nut jobs running out there to "live the dream".
"When I come up and hunt with you, because I will. I know we're going to have a good time. T-bone and me are similar in nature and he said you are a great man. I'm looknig forward to it. But, HAVING to hire you is the part that sucks."
But i've got five years to wait right? or are you rich man in disguise??
T-Bone told me about your disguises....<wink wink> lol"I'm OK with good reasons to make people hire guides.... I just haven't heard any yet."
People who care about the land they walk on and don't treat it like a disposable land fill....a hunting buddy with local knowledge on weather, meat care, terrian, bears, saftey procedures, someone to call your shots when it takes you around 25 shots to hit a sheep, a shoulder to cry on, a friend when....oh wait, gotta little off track, started to reminise about my hunt with T-bone!!
Jake, I gotta disagree with you on some things.
I do agree to a point about every tom dick and harry running around looking for a brown bear (etc.). Thats why a draw system can work (or something similar).
Its not about safety either, I dont buy it. You can moose hunt in bear country, but you cant bear hunt in moose country? I would rather ambush a bear that is unsuspecting than have a bear on the hunt for the food and catch someone off guard.
Also, you do hear about alot more alaskans unprepared and get in trouble vs the non-res. Most folks that come up here are serious hunters and usually come prepared, yeah there are a few knuckleheads though.
As for the size judging, what a joke, remember my wife is a taxidermist and deals with guides. I'd say some guides have a problem with judging size. Then again, a so-called bigger bear means a bigger tip.
As a plus to Jake, my wife has done some of his clients bears and he didnt BS his clients. Alot of guides do though.
Overall I dont have a problem with guides in general, it can be a good job that puts food on the table for there family, I just feel the guiding industry, as a whole, is to big in this state and have more than there share of control of the BOG, IMO of course.
I do agree to a point about every tom dick and harry running around looking for a brown bear (etc.). Thats why a draw system can work (or something similar).
Its not about safety either, I dont buy it. You can moose hunt in bear country, but you cant bear hunt in moose country? I would rather ambush a bear that is unsuspecting than have a bear on the hunt for the food and catch someone off guard.
Also, you do hear about alot more alaskans unprepared and get in trouble vs the non-res. Most folks that come up here are serious hunters and usually come prepared, yeah there are a few knuckleheads though.
As for the size judging, what a joke, remember my wife is a taxidermist and deals with guides. I'd say some guides have a problem with judging size. Then again, a so-called bigger bear means a bigger tip.
As a plus to Jake, my wife has done some of his clients bears and he didnt BS his clients. Alot of guides do though.
Overall I dont have a problem with guides in general, it can be a good job that puts food on the table for there family, I just feel the guiding industry, as a whole, is to big in this state and have more than there share of control of the BOG, IMO of course.
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