Administration Removing Protections from Tongass National Forest

[SAJ-99]

You understand the lumber industry about as well as understand construction. Not at all. Carry on with your charts.

And please continue with your baseless, unsupported economic complaints.

 

[BigHornRam]

And please continue with your baseless, unsupported economic complaints.

I think you have watched Wall Street too many times, Gordon. Mills I am familiar with are small family owned community oriented businesses like Vaagen and Stoltze.

 

[BigHornRam]

This link is funny. Canadian union officials complaining about "high" stumpage rates on Crown Land.

Stumpage system driving the crisis in BC's forestry industry - Digital Journal

With close to 4,000 forestry industry workers laid off in British Columbia already, advocates are calling for urgent government action to stem the

m.digitaljournal.com

 

[SAJ-99]

I think you have watched Wall Street too many times, Gordon. Mills I am familiar with are small family owned community oriented businesses like Vaagen and Stoltze.

Not sure your point, but logging the Tongans is not going to solve their problems.
I love people who say “capitalism is the greatest” until someone finds a way to undercut them and then they cry “foul”. You can’t have it both ways. Suck it up buttercup and innovate or get bigger so you can push the other guy around. Home Depot isn’t complaining about lumber prices. It’s just a minor fact of the business for that company.

 

[BigHornRam]

Not sure your point, but logging the Tongans is not going to solve their problems.
I love people who say “capitalism is the greatest” until someone finds a way to undercut them and then they cry “foul”. You can’t have it both ways. Suck it up buttercup and innovate or get bigger so you can push the other guy around. Home Depot isn’t complaining about lumber prices. It’s just a minor fact of the business for that company.

Actually Stoltze sells a lot of lumber to Home Depot at a premium. Home Depot figured out that buying quality lumber from a quality producer was better for their bottom line. Lot less twisted culled lumber left cluttering up their bins.

 

[Addicting]

I see lots of lumber on rail cars in northern Montana.....none headed west. weird

Hanging out in Cheyenne for 2 days there were a lot of rail cars headed east too.

 

[BWALKER77]

Actually Stoltze sells a lot of lumber to Home Depot at a premium. Home Depot figured out that buying quality lumber from a quality producer was better for their bottom line. Lot less twisted culled lumber left cluttering up their bins.

If Home Depot sells quality lumber I would hate to see the bargain basement stuff.

 

[BWALKER77]

Meanwhile the guys bitching about logging all live in homes built from lumber.

 

[BigHornRam]

If Home Depot sells quality lumber I would hate to see the bargain basement stuff.

It's a recent revelation by Home Depot. Selling shit wood was costing them a lot of money.

 

[SAJ-99]

Actually Stoltze sells a lot of lumber to Home Depot at a premium. Home Depot figured out that buying quality lumber from a quality producer was better for their bottom line. Lot less twisted culled lumber left cluttering up their bins.

I’ve noticed your argument goes in circles, leading nowhere, so I’m tapping out.

 

[BigHornRam]

I’ve noticed your argument goes in circles, leading nowhere, so I’m tapping out.

You are getting lapped. 5 laps down by my count. I would park it too if I were you.

 

[HyperWoof13]

Best part
"Logging in Alaska costs U.S. taxpayers millions each year, because of a long-standing federal mandate that companies profit from any timber sale. This means the Forest Service often covers harvesters’ costs, including road building. According to a Taxpayer for Common Sense analysis of the Forest Service’s accounts, the Tongass timber program has lost roughly $1.7 billion over the last 40 years."

Then
"Trump administration believes “that overall reduction in federal regulations is good for the American public due to reduced burden to the taxpayer and reduced burden to business.”"

This is the escence of 'Jobs,Jobs,Jobs'. We need to tax the worker because we don't want to tax the business. In this case, we will even pay timber companies to cut timber, which leads them to not worry about costs at all because they are borne by the citizens. We are destroying pristine natural areas and paying companies to do it.

Is this true? We cover road costs?

 

[BearFoot]

Through fees, fines, and taxes, we the people, cover the cost of roads, highways, ports, airports, new green deals, like Solyndra. Does our government make a profit at anything? Post office charges and can't break even.
Logging in the Tongass is a renewable energy project.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Sorry I just don't want taxpayers paying for projects that are known to not be economically sustainable when you have a free market that is able to make a profit on other projects elsewhere.
Deals like these are asking for corruption. "mandatory profit"? Seriously?
If lumber prices are high then let the people who buy lumber pay for it. Lets try to keep the markets free..
Your mcmansion should not contribute to the national debt.

 

[SAJ-99]

Lets try to keep make the markets free..

There, fixed it for you.

 

[Elkmagnet]

There, fixed it for you.

As someone who use to file for a lot of farm subsidies I can tell you that 75% of that 37 billion in taxpayer money is complete bull.

 

[jryoung]

Through fees, fines, and taxes, we the people, cover the cost of roads, highways, ports, airports, new green deals, like Solyndra. Does our government make a profit at anything? Post office charges and can't break even.
Logging in the Tongass is a renewable energy project.

Since you bring it up, the Title XVII and ATVM loan program through the DOE Loan Program Office have delivered modest returns on $30B of investment, which have resulted nearly $50B of total investment.

Since it started ten years ago the nearly a third of the principle has been repaid as well as $2B in interest and exposure risk is very low.

So yes, the government can make a profit with sound strategies, but it also shouldn't need to in all situations if building infasructure or providing critical services.

When it comes to our resources, I prefer a profit be made.

 

[Rainer]

This is and always will be a horrible unprofitable idea. It will make it even worse if Canada floods the market and drops the price of softwood. If the climate keeps trending in the way its going, these old growth forest are critical deer habitat

 

[Bambistew]

Imagine planning a OYO, DIY, Solo, Public Land adventure to hunt bears or deer in SE Alaska and not using logging roads to get around. This cheap hunts on subsidized roads sure would get expensive.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I'm not very familiar with this area or the issues involved. Maybe this has been mentioned and I missed it. Will this have any benefits to habitat? I know here in the east and other places that logging seriously enhances habitat for some species like deer, and grouse while having an adverse effect on others like bears. Curious of how it works for that type of forest.