A Navy Veteran’s perspective on racism

[Trial153]

If you find victim shaming in my statement you have to re read it. I am staunch about the sad situation where victims are ignored and criminals get every consideration. Mr. Floyd was a victim...but if he had not committed a crime the criminal cop would not have been on his neck.

It didnt fly the first time you wrote it. So double down on it? This thinking is misguided at best.

 

[Howie]

What crime did he commit? What was he cited for? Where is the trial?

Allegedly passing a fake $20, with no proof, no trial...is not a crime committed, in case you're still unsure about your false assertion.

Your right, he didn't get to full due process because the murder happened during the early stages of due process. Being apprehended for the investigation of the alleged passing of counterfeit money.

 

[Howie]

It didnt fly the first time you wrote it. So double down on it? This thinking is misguided at best.

That's the beauty of America, you don't to agree with me, and my opinions don't have to "fly".

It not that my thinking is misguided, it's that you think it's misguided.
I believe you think shaming is misguided, but is shaming not what you are doing?

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

HBO takes gone with the wind off its platforms, cops has been cancelled, streets are being renamed, LAPD on A&E cancelled....were doing it change is happening I cant stress enough how much these actions are gonna help the issues at hand. So exciting!!!

 

[VikingsGuy]

We as humans complicate everything.

I see it as, thoughtful humans see and can deal with the complexity of a life with others. There is no universal zero complexity life sitting there waiting for us to choose, if that life includes dozens to hundreds of other humans' needs, preferences and actions (let alone those of 350 million other fellow citizens). Heck, as you point out, even just having a spouse introduces complexity - but not as an avoidable problem, but as a natural part of being.

 

[Huntkook]

HBO takes gone with the wind off its platforms, cops has been cancelled, streets are being renamed, LAPD on A&E cancelled....were doing it change is happening I cant stress enough how much these actions are gonna help the issues at hand. So exciting!!!

 

[Trial153]

That's the beauty of America, you don't to agree with me, and my opinions don't have to "fly".

It not that my thinking is misguided, it's that you think it's misguided.
I believe you think shaming is misguided, but is shaming not what you are doing?

Your whataboutism is at the root of this issue, and does nothing but perpetuate the same thinking that has brought us to this point. When you say he shouldnt have been murdered BUT; there is no but. And its incumbent upon everyone of us to articulate that its unacceptable. For too long our silence has equaled consent.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Your whataboutism is at the root of this issue, and does nothing but perpetuate the same thinking that has brought us to this point. When you say he shouldnt have been murdered BUT; there is no but. And its incumbent upon everyone of us to articulate that its unacceptable. For too long our silence has equaled consent.

Maybe YOUR silence?

Speaking for myself here, but when I am in the presence of an injustice or a wrong being done I speak up or try and stop it. (I personally dont live my life like the final episode of Seinfeld) So no MY imaginary silence that YOU and many others want to burden me with is complete trash!!! I will acknowledge there is evil in this world, but I will not take the collective blame for the evil deeds committed by another human.

STOP COLLECTIVLEY blaming society for the misdeeds of the VERY few. Find the GOOD deeds done in society everyday that go unnoticed and bring it to the forefront instead of highlighting evil in the forefront and Live a good life and remember everywhere you go to set the best example you can. Somebodies always watching and you can change a many heart without ever knowing you did.

This is not solely directed at you @Trial153 this is a generalization of how a lot of people feel who pride themselves on living a wholesome life yet feel attacked for shit they have no control over!

 

[Irrelevant]

This is not solely directed at you @Trial153 this is a generalization of how a lot of people feel who pride themselves on living a wholesome life yet feel attacked for shit they have no control over!

I have definitely felt this attack against me, but it's all been through social media and the news, which thankfully is easy to ignore or turnoff.

 

[Trial153]

Maybe YOUR silence?

Speaking for myself here, but when I am in the presence of an injustice or a wrong being done I speak up or try and stop it. (I personally dont live my life like the final episode of Seinfeld) So no MY imaginary silence that YOU and many others want to burden me with is complete trash!!! I will acknowledge there is evil in this world, but I will not take the collective blame for the evil deeds committed by another human.

STOP COLLECTIVLEY blaming society for the misdeeds of the VERY few. Find the GOOD deeds done in society everyday that go unnoticed and bring it to the forefront instead of highlighting evil in the forefront and Live a good life and remember everywhere you go to set the best example you can. Somebodies always watching and you can change a many heart without ever knowing you did.

This is not solely directed at you @Trial153 this is a generalization of how a lot of people feel who pride themselves on living a wholesome life yet feel attacked for shit they have no control over!

Because something doesn't individually effect us or because we dont partake in an action oursleves doesn't negate its existence. In fact thats point. We are acknowledging that we still have collective problem with racism. Collective solutuons cant take place without individual actions.

HBO takes gone with the wind off its platforms, cops has been cancelled, streets are being renamed, LAPD on A&E cancelled....were doing it change is happening I cant stress enough how much these actions are gonna help the issues at hand. So exciting!!!

Your ^ version of speaking up?

 

[mplane72]

As far as the OP one of my first thoughts was about what kind of reaction a person of color would get if they were out fishing while open carrying around here. I don't think the author is packing cause of bears.

I see a good number of black people fishing around here but only know of a couple that hunt. I don't know them personally but I know some who do. To many times I've heard "yeah, they're cool even though.............
Seeing as most hunting around here is done on private I can't believe they've have an easy time.

This is a stretch but maybe some here can relate to this way of thinking about things.

As licensed hunters and fisherman, even boaters we pretty much sign up to being checked out by CO's, Game Warden's etc. Personally these check outs often happen at not the most convenient times. Like at the ramp ready to head home, or in the duck blind while birds are working or on the water in the act of fishing. There's no stopping it, no asking to wait. They want to see license, game bag whatever you have to show it. Often it's been my experience that there is a strong desire to find a violation, no matter how accommodating I am. Personally, I've run into to many CO's that enjoy their power to much. It's what we signed up for but we can quit. Imagine you couldn't quit and you often had to deal with that level of suspicion all day every day.

Now don't go attacking me for hating fish and game cops. I don't. I value and support their work. But just like regular LE there are some that abuse their power and are just not cut out for the job. I'll also point out here in Iowa there have been legislative efforts recently to limit Conservation Officers search and seizure powers. I think it's safe to say that lots of hunters and fishermen have a negative view of CO's.

Policing in this country needs to change. In to many communities the middle and upper class areas are "served and protected" the low income area's are policed and controlled.

 

[Gr8bawana]

I'll chime in before this thread gets locked.
Nobody's mind here will ever be changes no matter how much arguing goes on. Those here who are racist and have voiced that mindset will always be racist.

 

[azelkhntr]

Whataboutism. Def. but but but but but but.

Trial may feel guilty and perhaps he has good reason. Not me. I’m not going to feel guilty nor am I going to allow others to shove guilt on me or make me guilty by association. If you feel or think you’re guilty that’s a you problem not a me problem. You want to hit your knees and beg forgiveness for sins you didn’t commit be my guest. A little history lesson. The first known registered legal slave owner in America was a black man. There were over 3000 free blacks who owned slaves to work their holdings. Thousands of slaves were held by Indians. Slavery didn’t exist above the Mason-Dixon line. Most people lived above that. Should their ancestors feel guilty? Isn’t it enough that over 600,000. men gave their lives to end it?

 

[Howie]

Your whataboutism is at the root of this issue, and does nothing but perpetuate the same thinking that has brought us to this point. When you say he shouldnt have been murdered BUT; there is no but. And its incumbent upon everyone of us to articulate that its unacceptable. For too long our silence has equaled consent.

Brother, I think we are closer on the same page than you may think. You will see it.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Because something doesn't individually effect us or because we dont partake in an action oursleves doesn't negate its existence. In fact thats point. We are acknowledging that we still have collective problem with racism. Collective solutuons cant take place without individual actions.




Your ^ version of speaking up?

Right over your head

 

[Handlebar]

I'll chime in before this thread gets locked.
Nobody's mind here will ever be changes no matter how much arguing goes on. Those here who are racist and have voiced that mindset will always be racist.

So if I disagree with your point of view I am a racist? If I don't want to accept collective guilt I am a racist?

 

[azelkhntr]

I

So if I disagree with your point of view I am a racist? If I don't want to accept collective guilt I am a racist?

It’s easy now man. The new standard is are you Caucasian? Racist! Are you conservative? Racist! Do you have any money? Racist! You don’t agree with us? Yuge racist! It’s so easy now to be racist. You don’t even have to work at it.

 

[Brandon270]

Even if I was to accept that the system is completely corrupt and the country is one big racist place, I still don't understand why minorities self segragate themselves. When my wife went back to school to finish her degree there were 4 different graduations. The main graduation included all graduates. Then they had a separate Latino graduation, African American graduation and an LGBT graduation. Why are we arguing and fighting so much for inclusion and equal treatment but then have additional separate events to point out we are different? What would have happened if there was a white graduation too?

Again no argument here that we have racists among us, but we choose to separate ourselves sometimes more than it is being forced upon us. To me I don't care about your background or your ethnicity if you aren't a bs-er and you are genuine, you have my respect.

 

[Fullquiver]

Having read this thread through and having a different perspective on this, different than most I would say.. First a statement then a question..

I am a man of mixed origin, my paternal grandmother was native born on the reservation. My paternal grandfather was mixed half black and white. However I look like my mother who was 100% Norwegian with her parents being born back in Norway.. My English roots date back in this nation to the early 1600s and I can directly trace my sir name to the very first non native child born in what is modern day RI..

So I look White; my skin color, should I carry the guilt of my skin or the indignation of my heritage?? Should I be proud or ashamed?

BTW When I am asked what my heritage is I say American... I say that the only race I care about is the human race... It's the only one we have..

 

[VikingsGuy]

I don't act out of guilt. I act out of love for others, as my faith encourages me.

It doesn't matter that I did not personally lock a native American in a trunk of a cop car for 7 hours (another great MPLS police example). It does not matter that my ancestors came to America after slavery was ended and never lived in a segregated state. It doesn't matter that I worked hard for what I have. I doesn't matter that others make bad choices (and frankly I made plenty of my own along the way).

The question is, what do I do with what I see now? Do I choose to list reasons why this is not my fault, not my problem, or do I do something different? Do I try to take one small step towards healing and helping or do I wash my hands of it and "move further north in Idaho" as one commenter suggested?

I choose to learn, I choose to love, I choose to accept that the experiences of others are real even if they do not match my own. I choose to ask how my blessings may be used to help a fellow human or group of humans who are enduring challenges I am not.

Guilt or innocence is not the question - it is what are you going to do when others are suffering.

If you are in the field and you see a wounded animal, wounded by another hunter, do you do anything or do you say you aren't guilty of anything and move on? I have read grown men on this forum claim they were brought to tears over a wounded deer - how about a few tears for George Floyd, the blacks of Tulsa or rosewood . . and on an on . . . ? If you see an injured hiker, even one that made some bad decisions - do you do anything or do you say that they caused their own mess and walk away?

This is not about guilt or innocence, it is about awareness, empathy and grace for your fellow man.

I tend to keep religion and politics (and religion and hunting) separate, but it feels incomplete to not end with:

“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." John 15:12
"Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me." Matthew 25:40