A growing problem
- Thread starter Marshian
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Redmt
Well-known member
I was coming home from a day trip fishing and a guy comes up to me in the gas station begging for food. I offered him a sandwich left over from my lunch. He refused it because it wasn't what he liked.
rke
Well-known member
Yes, for many years.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Man... for a group of people that constantly lament the moral decay of society I sure find the prevailing attitude in this thread to be sickening.
I have watched Seattle is Dying, and I have witnessed it first hand. I will not take my kids downtown anymore. So I will admit there is a safety aspect that should be addressed.
But to treat all homeless people as the same is to treat all of any group the same. Are hunters the same as poachers? Isn't that an idea we openly reject? Are all truck drivers terrible drivers because I've damn sure seen some that are.
Have any of you been poor? Like borderline homeless poor? I have. And it wasn't my parents choosing. Thankfully they caught a couple of breaks and had a robust family safety net to fall back on. But being poor isn't a $*)Q!#@$ good time. No one openly strives for it who has the capacity to do otherwise.
And for those of you suggesting that it's their own decisions that lead them down this path... well did it ever occur to you that that ability to make good choices or the lack there of, is just as much a part of the human condition as some people going bald? Did I choose to lose my hair? Did my HS best friend choose to make poor choices? No, in either case. He's lamented to me that he just can't do it, he doesn't even know he's making bad choices until after the fact or worst yet, thinks he's making the better choice in the moment, but isn't able to process the long-term ramifications. He's had to move in with my parents twice to keep from being homeless himself. He's not a bad person. And I love him dearly. We've all seen mentally handicap people who aren't ever going to be functioning members of society, I hope but assume that in those interactions you've shown them empathy yet respect, they didn't choose to be like that. There are just as many people, if not more, who on that gradation between you, and the mentally infirm. "A society should be judged, if on nothing else, but the quality of which it treats it's most vulnerable members"
I have watched Seattle is Dying, and I have witnessed it first hand. I will not take my kids downtown anymore. So I will admit there is a safety aspect that should be addressed.
But to treat all homeless people as the same is to treat all of any group the same. Are hunters the same as poachers? Isn't that an idea we openly reject? Are all truck drivers terrible drivers because I've damn sure seen some that are.
Have any of you been poor? Like borderline homeless poor? I have. And it wasn't my parents choosing. Thankfully they caught a couple of breaks and had a robust family safety net to fall back on. But being poor isn't a $*)Q!#@$ good time. No one openly strives for it who has the capacity to do otherwise.
And for those of you suggesting that it's their own decisions that lead them down this path... well did it ever occur to you that that ability to make good choices or the lack there of, is just as much a part of the human condition as some people going bald? Did I choose to lose my hair? Did my HS best friend choose to make poor choices? No, in either case. He's lamented to me that he just can't do it, he doesn't even know he's making bad choices until after the fact or worst yet, thinks he's making the better choice in the moment, but isn't able to process the long-term ramifications. He's had to move in with my parents twice to keep from being homeless himself. He's not a bad person. And I love him dearly. We've all seen mentally handicap people who aren't ever going to be functioning members of society, I hope but assume that in those interactions you've shown them empathy yet respect, they didn't choose to be like that. There are just as many people, if not more, who on that gradation between you, and the mentally infirm. "A society should be judged, if on nothing else, but the quality of which it treats it's most vulnerable members"
Missoula is the largest city near me and I see this all the time. I think about 20% of the homeless are people who are simply down on their luck...but too dependent on luck. The rest are brain damaged from meth and booze or just degenerates gaming the system and panhandling quite lucratively.
There is considerable disparity in handouts to immigrants and handouts to the homeless. Seems to me American freeloaders are more deserving than foreign freeloaders. Why give it to foreign immigrants or foreign aid?
The main thing keeping many of these homeless people from getting their stuff together is lack of showers. They stink too much to get and hold a job.
The Montana real estate shortage is due to people wanting to move out of the crazier, degenerate and just plain dangerous parts of the country where a subtle Bolshevik Revolution seems to be getting implemented. Montana has only recently been "discovered". I don't think attacking and taxing the property rights of private property owners is the solution. Not everyone can afford to live in the most desirable parts of the country. The law of supply and demand will settle the problem better than any government measures.
There is considerable disparity in handouts to immigrants and handouts to the homeless. Seems to me American freeloaders are more deserving than foreign freeloaders. Why give it to foreign immigrants or foreign aid?
The main thing keeping many of these homeless people from getting their stuff together is lack of showers. They stink too much to get and hold a job.
The Montana real estate shortage is due to people wanting to move out of the crazier, degenerate and just plain dangerous parts of the country where a subtle Bolshevik Revolution seems to be getting implemented. Montana has only recently been "discovered". I don't think attacking and taxing the property rights of private property owners is the solution. Not everyone can afford to live in the most desirable parts of the country. The law of supply and demand will settle the problem better than any government measures.
BucksnDucks
Well-known member
You're right they all should not be treated the same. Your example of being "poor" borderline homeless and others of working people living in cars is not the issue causing the problems in communities. Those individual cases are tragic and deserving of assistance. There are anecdotal stories in any discussion. The problem is in the masses not the few.
How much of the decline in Seattle was due to this compared to rampant addiction fueled by well-meaning cash assistance and zero law enforcement.
Is it so cold hearted and sickening to want to help those that want help to get out of the lifestyle of street life. Yet, at the same time discourage addiction, theft, pollution and crime associated with those choosing a life of "freedom" and hand outs. It's clear they are not the same.
Go down to Seattle without the kids and talk with some people for more than 30 seconds. The out of towners, under 35 years old, habitually unemployed.
Please report your findings.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
What makes you think I haven't or more importantly have done that within my own community? I'm not preachin' hypotheticals, I volunteer too.
Give me a break.
How about this do you want assistance a drug test should be required before you’re getting your hand out. If you have money for dope, alcohol or anything else you don’t need assistance.
It is also not societies problem if you were to stupid to understand that you were making bad decisions in life. If you continually make poor life choices that’s a you problem.
I’m sure I’ll catch hell for this but if you truly wanted to help the massive number of mentally ill people that are homeless you would bring back large scale asylums. if you are deemed mentally unfit off you go. At least then they would have a roof over their heads and three meals a day.
Now we just through enough pills at them to last a couple weeks and turn them back out on the street.
BucksnDucks
Well-known member
Well, my impressions based on your comments about Seattle. I don't think it's a bunch of hard working people that got laid off or priced out of homes that destroyed the city. What do you volunteer for in Seattle? Is it working? Haven't been there but looks pretty bad on the news.
What percentage of people are out of towners? What percent addicted or severe mental disorder? How many want off the streets?
Hopefully you can find the small percentage in need and in want of change and make a difference for them. Just making them comfortable for one day doesn't help the big picture.
Because you mention the "poor". Yes, the working poor suffer. Those with six figure incomes in gated communities don't have this at their doorstep. The young man or women, maybe with kids working to afford a cheaper house or apartment getting catalytic converter, tools, kid's bike or whatever stolen. Dealing with this on their "doorstep" daily
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Let that just marinate a bit...
Man, talk about someone in need of some perspective. I hope no one you love ever struggles.
In the End we all will be judged. I know treating humans as animals, or worse, is not something I want to have to defend.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Working poor getting assaulted going to work. This guy needs to be locked up for the rest of his life.
np307
Well-known member
There it is
I have 15 years of perspective. I can count on one hand, that had a Fourth of July fireworks accident, how many people I’ve seen actually turn it around.
Some people need a dose of reality.
Paying homeless to be homeless isn’t helping them. It’s fueling addiction and mental health issues.
Providing money drug addicts to buy dope and providing them a safe place to shoot up isn’t helping either, that one should be pretty self-explanatory.
Continuing to shove mentally ill people back out on the streets with a couple days worth of meds isn’t helping them either.
No way man. He just needs some nice gentleman to serve him up some hot mashed potatoes and give him a hug. He’ll be good as new.
Nick87
Well-known member
I guess the news is only ok when it's your preferred flavor...
BigHornRam
Well-known member
I've been to downtown Seattle once......in the 90's. I won't be going back.
np307
Well-known member
My preferred flavor is not pretending to be a subject matter expert in something I've only seen news snippets of
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Does consistent snippets of reality that coincide with various 'news' snippets make you an expert?
Nick87
Well-known member
Right behind the ear and be done with it.
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