A growing problem

[Marshian]

This was in the local paper recently. I imagine it’s happening throughout many mountain west towns that have experienced tremendous growth these past few years. This man my not be as diplomatic as some may like but he’s not wrong. What are others thoughts or solutions?

The Homeless Problem - Flathead Beacon

 Upon reading the story, “Kalispell Chamber Considers Relocating,” I had a “tada” moment. I truly feel sadness and empathy for the lost souls who comprise the homeless population. I wish there were more resources to help those who want help. Now for my “tada” moment. Why does the Kalispell...

flatheadbeacon.com

 

[4ohSick]

I think the first solution would be taxing the hell out of vacation rentals. The explosion of VRBO’s in destination cities throughout Montana has been a huge factor in skyrocketing housing costs, along with corporations purchasing single family homes, which I’d like to see banned.

 

[rke]

The issue isn't the amount of resources available, at least not where I live. The issue is RAMPANT drugs coupled with handouts that are perpetuated by society's continual removal of personal choice and personal responsibility for your choices.

 

[BirdManMike]

There is going to come a day when the local Town and Country, Albertsons, or other grocer is only open on Tuesdays from 9-5 due to housing for a would-be labor force being either entirely occupied by retirees and remote workers, rented as a short term vacation rental, or owned as a 2nd (3rd, 4th, whatever) home and occupied a few weeks per year. There will still be some boomer out front on a Wednesday having forgotten Tuesday was the day shaking his fist at the sky proclaiming 'no one wants to work any more!'.

 

[Bigjay73]

Send em back to Evergreen

 

[jejack26]

I think the first solution would be taxing the hell out of vacation rentals. The explosion of VRBO’s in destination cities throughout Montana has been a huge factor in skyrocketing housing costs, along with corporations purchasing single family homes, which I’d like to see banned.

You nailed it

 

[BucksnDucks]

This one is in my wheelhouse. I live in CA, I'm an expert on this and avocados. Ask me about the best guacamole recipe or what happens when homelessness is allowed to grow and "help" only encourages more and more.
If you're community wants to "help" the homeless, use all the resources to get them off the streets. Literally, do not allow it period. Pass ordinances against vagrancy, illegal camping, creek pollution, park use hours and enforce it vigorously.
Help those who want help to leave this lifestyle but don't allow living/camping in parks etc. The sad reality is towns that just give money and no enforcement of laws are a destination for homeless.
Hand it out and they will come.

 

[4ohSick]

I’m just an entitled millennial, but let’s think of it as a chicken or the egg situation for a second. You’re a blue collar worker (or even entry level white collar) in Bozeman making $50k a year. Not bad right? Except the median home price this year was $950k. So you’re forever doomed to rent. Except then you get informed your rental sold to someone who’s going to use it as an AirBnb, and suddenly you’re homeless. Hard to keep your job when you’re living out of a car, especially in the frigid north. Life sucks either way, but at least you don’t notice as much when you’re high.

Long story short, sure some of these people lack personal responsibility, but at some point people’s bootstraps are only so strong.

 

[BucksnDucks]

I’m just an entitled millennial, but let’s think of it as a chicken or the egg situation for a second. You’re a blue collar worker (or even entry level white collar) in Bozeman making $50k a year. Not bad right? Except the median home price this year was $950k. So you’re forever doomed to rent. Except then you get informed your rental sold to someone who’s going to use it as an AirBnb, and suddenly you’re homeless. Hard to keep your job when you’re living out of a car, especially in the frigid north. Life sucks either way, but at least you don’t notice as much when you’re high.

Long story short, sure some of these people lack personal responsibility, but at some point people’s bootstraps are only so strong.

I venture it's a pretty rare case that an employed person, with a vehicle, making 50K is choosing to be homeless over commuting or finding another job/place to live. Maybe your homeless are different in Bozeman.

 

[thomas89]

I’m just an entitled millennial, but let’s think of it as a chicken or the egg situation for a second. You’re a blue collar worker (or even entry level white collar) in Bozeman making $50k a year. Not bad right? Except the median home price this year was $950k. So you’re forever doomed to rent. Except then you get informed your rental sold to someone who’s going to use it as an AirBnb, and suddenly you’re homeless. Hard to keep your job when you’re living out of a car, especially in the frigid north. Life sucks either way, but at least you don’t notice as much when you’re high.

Long story short, sure some of these people lack personal responsibility, but at some point people’s bootstraps are only so strong.

Agreed. The issue is sorting out who’s who.

Salaries for most of the top employees in homeless advocacy groups are massive. And why would they truly want to solve the problem? And work themselves out of a good paying gig? Where the excuses why you’re ineffective are unbelievably easy to come up with.

Mental health and drug use are rampant within the homeless community for sure. But a great deal of mental health issues are brought about BY drug use. There are people who CHOOSE to be homeless. It’s an odd concept to me, but there are so many handouts it’s actually makes sense to some.

Never been there before, but you have to burn a hell of a lot of bridges to wind up truly homeless.

 

[BucksnDucks]

I venture it's a pretty rare case that an employed person, with a vehicle, making 50K is choosing to be homeless over commuting or finding another job/place to live. Maybe your homeless are different in Bozeman.

This thread should be split in two discussions because one does not equal the other.

1. Dramatic increase in housing costs/second homes/AirBnB etc in particular locations
2. Epidemic of homelessness

 

[rke]

I’m just an entitled millennial, but let’s think of it as a chicken or the egg situation for a second. You’re a blue collar worker (or even entry level white collar) in Bozeman making $50k a year. Not bad right? Except the median home price this year was $950k. So you’re forever doomed to rent. Except then you get informed your rental sold to someone who’s going to use it as an AirBnb, and suddenly you’re homeless. Hard to keep your job when you’re living out of a car, especially in the frigid north. Life sucks either way, but at least you don’t notice as much when you’re high.

Long story short, sure some of these people lack personal responsibility, but at some point people’s bootstraps are only so strong.

I don't live where I want, I live where I need to in order to be productive and appropriately care for my family. There are a lot of places where my income wouldn't allow me to be a homeowner. Responsibility necessitates living within your means.

There are certainly rare cases of legitimate down on your luck situations. However, those are the people taking advantage of the resources available (shelters and care facilities).

 

[4ohSick]

This thread should be split in two discussions because one does not equal the other.

1. Dramatic increase in housing costs/second homes/AirBnB etc in particular locations
2. Epidemic of homelessness

I agree, but having lived in Montana my whole life, and the thread referencing Kalispell, there seems to be an awful lot of correlation between the two, but I know that does not equal causation.

 

[rjthehunter]

I’m just an entitled millennial, but let’s think of it as a chicken or the egg situation for a second. You’re a blue collar worker (or even entry level white collar) in Bozeman making $50k a year. Not bad right? Except the median home price this year was $950k. So you’re forever doomed to rent. Except then you get informed your rental sold to someone who’s going to use it as an AirBnb, and suddenly you’re homeless. Hard to keep your job when you’re living out of a car, especially in the frigid north. Life sucks either way, but at least you don’t notice as much when you’re high.

Long story short, sure some of these people lack personal responsibility, but at some point people’s bootstraps are only so strong.

Live within your means. If you're making $50k and the housing market is that insane, then move or find a different job.

I'd love to live on a popular lake in the area, but it's outrageously expensive to live on it. So I don't live on it.


Biggest cause of homelessness has to be drugs. But, it isn't anything like the homelessness you see in Mexico. They're usually blind or disabled, not like most homeless in the US who are able bodied people who just don't want to work. There's sooo many jobs right now. There isn't a reason to be out on the corner asking for money. Back in high-school, my boss offered jobs to homeless people, or people on the street corners with signs. And go figure, they never wanted a job, just a free handout...

I survived on $14/hr while going to college with enough left over to hunt almost every day. Just prioritized rent and food. Too many people think everything should be given to them.

Not sure how AirBNBs are the problem. Supply and Demand run the market, if there's a demand for vacation rentals, then people will purchase them. Sounds like you need more housing out there or you need to not look in the high end neighborhoods!

 

[Nick87]

Live within your means. If you're making $50k and the housing market is that insane, then move or find a different job.

I'd love to live on a popular lake in the area, but it's outrageously expensive to live on it. So I don't live on it.


Biggest cause of homelessness has to be drugs. But, it isn't anything like the homelessness you see in Mexico. They're usually blind or disabled, not like most homeless in the US who are able bodied people who are just too lazy to work. There's sooo many jobs right now. There isn't a reason to be out on the corner asking for money. Back in high-school, my boss offered jobs to homeless people, or people on the street corners with signs. And go figure, they never wanted a job, just a free handout...

I agree with what a lot of what your saying, but i don't know that it's that easy of a fix.

 

[Irrelevant]

No one has a solution to homelessness. If they did we wouldn't have a growing issue basically everywhere. There's no silver bullet, no single cause, certainly no single solution.

 

[4ohSick]

Live within your means. If you're making $50k and the housing market is that insane, then move or find a different job.

I'd love to live on a popular lake in the area, but it's outrageously expensive to live on it. So I don't live on it.


Biggest cause of homelessness has to be drugs. But, it isn't anything like the homelessness you see in Mexico. They're usually blind or disabled, not like most homeless in the US who are able bodied people who just don't want to work. There's sooo many jobs right now. There isn't a reason to be out on the corner asking for money. Back in high-school, my boss offered jobs to homeless people, or people on the street corners with signs. And go figure, they never wanted a job, just a free handout...

I survived on $14/hr while going to college with enough left over to hunt almost every day. Just prioritized rent and food. Too many people think everything should be given to them.

Not sure how AirBNBs are the problem. Supply and Demand run the market, if there's a demand for vacation rentals, then people will purchase them. Sounds like you need more housing out there or you need to not look in the high end neighborhoods!

I made $14/hr in college in Bozeman. Lived pretty comfortably. Now rent has tripled, the same decidedly NON-high end $100k condos I looked at in college are $500k condos, and guess how much DOT engineering interns make. Still $14/hr. Sure they can work at T Bell for more, but if they want a career as an engineer they have to get that work experience.

 

[Marshian]

This one is in my wheelhouse. I live in CA, I'm an expert on this and avocados. Ask me about the best guacamole recipe or what happens when homelessness is allowed to grow and "help" only encourages more and more.
If you're community wants to "help" the homeless, use all the resources to get them off the streets. Literally, do not allow it period. Pass ordinances against vagrancy, illegal camping, creek pollution, park use hours and enforce it vigorously.
Help those who want help to leave this lifestyle but don't allow living/camping in parks etc. The sad reality is towns that just give money and no enforcement of laws are a destination for homeless.
Hand it out and they will come.

This is what I’ll be advocating for at my town council meetings, pass and enforce laws like those mentioned above. In addition, anytime I see some panhandling and also open alcohol, I immediately call the police. This has helped somewhat. It is a big and multi factorial problem, but that doesn’t mean we need to accept or passively encourage it. And certainly our kids shouldn’t suffer because of it (aka avoiding parks, feeling uncomfortable walking downtown, etc).

 

[BucksnDucks]

I agree, but having lived in Montana my whole life, and the thread referencing Kalispell, there seems to be an awful lot of correlation between the two, but I know that does not equal causation.

Oh yeah, I see your point for sure. Being priced out of homes in a desirable area absolutely sucks and is a problem. What I've experienced with the homeless population in my area has little to nothing to do with homes. Addiction, mental disorders, and handouts seem to be the root cause.

 

[rjthehunter]

No one has a solution to homelessness. If they did we wouldn't have a growing issue basically everywhere. There's no silver bullet, no single cause, certainly no single solution.

I don't know what the Mexican government/cartel did with them in Puerto Vallarta, but one year they were everywhere, then a couple year later, we went back and the whole place looked 100x better. No homeless people, and everything was cleaned up and looked really good. I even heard the cartel owns the bussing companies, and they got all new busses all the way around.