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A "common sense" proposal that will piss off both sides

Everyone making the argument that a shotgun is as effective a killing weapon as an AR are making a really effective argument against AR's having any purpose in self-defense. And as far as defense against a tyrannical government - they have lasers that can blow up ICBM's in the air. I don't think that's a very strong argument.
 
And thankfully you're not...

You challenged a pretty universal known fact and are now upset when I provided you a long list of sources to support it.

I’m really surprised more gun owners aren’t clamoring to give more power to arrogant, blowhard, career parasites. Aren’t you?
 
And while HT entertains mature debate, the political class carries on with meaningless pandering and virtue signaling. . .

Politics as usual, no matter the issue.
 
There was a good April 2018 opinion piece in Politico by Jon Stokes called A Gun Nut's Guide to Gun Control That Actually Works. It outlined, in detail, a system essentially identical to what you proposed. Including hypothetical arguments from "both sides" and rebuttals to them.

I've always thought the piece made an exceptional amount of sense.
Thanks - I like the simplicity.

Here's the link to the article: https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...ederal-semi-automatic-firearm-license-218072/


So neither of you would have a problem applying and registering for a federally issued license for simple possession of all semi-automatic firearms? And what would be the punishment for someone who illegally has a semi-automatic firearm? I'm specifically thinking of the criminal who doesn't follow the laws in the first place. Now I have to go and apply for a federally issued license to legally own something that a criminal is going to possess anyways. And if I don't apply for the license then I'm a criminal too?

Deer hunters, duck hunters, upland game hunters - anyone who owns a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun - have to add yet another layer of Federal government oversee to our lives?

Personally, no thank you.
 
You challenged a pretty universal known fact and are now upset when I provided you a long list of sources to support it.

I’m really surprised more gun owners aren’t clamoring to give more power to arrogant, blowhard, career parasites. Aren’t you?
No I didn't challenge your facts, you never answered the question, go read it again.
 
Because any gun regulation seems out of the question, how about this. Create secure, staged entry for every primary school in US and hire a full time security guard. Let's estimate the cost. Google says (Google is your friend), 131,000 primary schools in US. Let's guesstimate it costs $200,000 for each school to create this dual-stage entry with intercoms and cameras and safety class, etc. Probably low, but it will work for this purpos and some newer schools already have them. At about 115m US households, that is a one-time tax of about $230. The security guard is a variable cost and depends a lot on locale. But let's say $80,000? Fair? that is an annual tax of $90.

Can we agree on that? Who is in?
 
I'm curious what the Second Amendment absolutists would say to the Framer's of the Constitution (John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington) if we could time travel them to 2022 and try to explain to them how 19 dead children and 2 dead teachers is all part of an inalienable right? Would they still right it as they did?
Not to be too argumentative, but I would guess they would say, "My hometown lost twice that number to last week's cholera outbreak alone, you bore me with your silly 21st-century whining." Time travel is tricky - we share very little context.
 
Because any gun regulation seems out of the question, how about this. Create secure, staged entry for every primary school in US and hire a full time security guard. Let's estimate the cost. Google says (Google is your friend), 131,000 primary schools in US. Let's guesstimate it costs $200,000 for each school to create this dual-stage entry with intercoms and cameras and safety class, etc. Probably low, but it will work for this purpos and some newer schools already have them. At about 115m US households, that is a one-time tax of about $230. The security guard is a variable cost and depends a lot on locale. But let's say $80,000? Fair? that is an annual tax of $90.

Can we agree on that? Who is in?
I'm in. We probably could have had a great head start if we used the $150 billion we sent to Iran, and the $40 billion we sent to Ukraine.
 
Because any gun regulation seems out of the question, how about this. Create secure, staged entry for every primary school in US and hire a full time security guard. Let's estimate the cost. Google says (Google is your friend), 131,000 primary schools in US. Let's guesstimate it costs $200,000 for each school to create this dual-stage entry with intercoms and cameras and safety class, etc. Probably low, but it will work for this purpos and some newer schools already have them. At about 115m US households, that is a one-time tax of about $230. The security guard is a variable cost and depends a lot on locale. But let's say $80,000? Fair? that is an annual tax of $90.

Can we agree on that? Who is in?
Add churches, shopping malls, colleges, workplaces, govt facilities, and give us that math again?
 
...
Few more classifications for semi-autos, certain handguns, certain capacities and such in the middle here...

Move on up to say, a suppressed AR platform: A bit more difficult to get. Say, 21 years to purchase, waiting period (with the types of NICS extensions VG outlined). A law abiding citizen could still get one, but some angry kid with a credit card can't walk into Joe's Guns & Ammo and walk out with one the same day.

Can this actually happen in some states?
 
I'm curious what the Second Amendment absolutists would say to the Framer's of the Constitution (John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington) if we could time travel them to 2022 and try to explain to them how 19 dead children and 2 dead teachers is all part of an inalienable right? Would they still right it as they did?
I would think that if we brought them here today, they would have started the 2nd Revolutionary War by now. We would never get to the 2A because we'd never get past "In God We Trust" before the shooting started.
 
I'm in. We probably could have had a great head start if we used the $150 billion we sent to Iran, and the $40 billion we sent to Ukraine.
Don't go looking for money. The budget deficit will finally drop below $1T this year. You will never get out of the rabbit hole.
 
Add churches, shopping malls, colleges, workplaces, govt facilities, and give us that math again?
People have the ability to defend themselves in most of those places - IF THEY SO CHOOSE. In the places where they can't protect themselves, then the responsibility of ensuring their protection lies with the organization (workplace, govt facilities, etc.). If you create a Gun Free Zone, you have the moral obligation to provide protection to people while they are in it.
 
Everyone making the argument that a shotgun is as effective a killing weapon as an AR are making a really effective argument against AR's having any purpose in self-defense. And as far as defense against a tyrannical government - they have lasers that can blow up ICBM's in the air. I don't think that's a very strong argument.
In a home invasion scenario, I would much rather have a long magazine shotgun (and do), in fighting off tyrants I would choose AR - hence the differences in opinion on ARs. Like always, it's about the use case. I for one welcome my future tyrannical leader, I only ask that he/she sees fit to punish all those who disagree with me.
 
Don't go looking for money. The budget deficit will finally drop below $1T this year. You will never get out of the rabbit hole.
[SARCASM]But you've got to think if the children...[/SARCASM] The politicians are great at bringing that point up - right until they have to allocate funding.

I can GUARANTEE I could find the budget for it - I'm not controlled by the political interest groups. I bet even the 2A lobbyists would go for it.
 
Here's the link to the article: https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...ederal-semi-automatic-firearm-license-218072/


So neither of you would have a problem applying and registering for a federally issued license for simple possession of all semi-automatic firearms? And what would be the punishment for someone who illegally has a semi-automatic firearm? I'm specifically thinking of the criminal who doesn't follow the laws in the first place. Now I have to go and apply for a federally issued license to legally own something that a criminal is going to possess anyways. And if I don't apply for the license then I'm a criminal too?

Deer hunters, duck hunters, upland game hunters - anyone who owns a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun - have to add yet another layer of Federal government oversee to our lives?

Personally, no thank you.
I appreciate the hesitation to add another layer of bureaucracy to anyone's life. But what if this permit were nearly as easy to acquire as your hunter's safety certificate was? I'm thinking of the thing being more like a NICS check that's good for five years.

Throw the book at the criminal types. As a former resident of a city that heavily restricted firearm ownership, I was pretty pissed off that criminals could get busted with handguns and likely not face serious consequences while I could not legally own a bolt gun without jumping through numerous and very expensive hoops.
 
Because any gun regulation seems out of the question, how about this. Create secure, staged entry for every primary school in US and hire a full time security guard. Let's estimate the cost. Google says (Google is your friend), 131,000 primary schools in US. Let's guesstimate it costs $200,000 for each school to create this dual-stage entry with intercoms and cameras and safety class, etc. Probably low, but it will work for this purpos and some newer schools already have them. At about 115m US households, that is a one-time tax of about $230. The security guard is a variable cost and depends a lot on locale. But let's say $80,000? Fair? that is an annual tax of $90.

Can we agree on that? Who is in?
I would rather roll the dice on my children being involved in a mass shooting vs raising them in fear with a security guard and metal detectors at the doors of their schools.
I don’t think that’s good for the overall mental health of our society.
 
Here's the link to the article: https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...ederal-semi-automatic-firearm-license-218072/


So neither of you would have a problem applying and registering for a federally issued license for simple possession of all semi-automatic firearms? And what would be the punishment for someone who illegally has a semi-automatic firearm? I'm specifically thinking of the criminal who doesn't follow the laws in the first place. Now I have to go and apply for a federally issued license to legally own something that a criminal is going to possess anyways. And if I don't apply for the license then I'm a criminal too?

Deer hunters, duck hunters, upland game hunters - anyone who owns a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun - have to add yet another layer of Federal government oversee to our lives?

Personally, no thank you.
When I moved to MA I had to get one to own any firearm.
 
I appreciate the hesitation to add another layer of bureaucracy to anyone's life. But what if this permit were nearly as easy to acquire as your hunter's safety certificate was? I'm thinking of the thing being more like a NICS check that's good for five years.

Throw the book at the criminal types. As a former resident of a city that heavily restricted firearm ownership, I was pretty pissed off that criminals could get busted with handguns and likely not face serious consequences while I could not legally own a bolt gun without jumping through numerous and very expensive hoops.
Let's try that BEFORE we go all in on another Federal program.
 
Move on up to say, a suppressed AR platform: A bit more difficult to get. Say, 21 years to purchase, waiting period (with the types of NICS extensions VG outlined). A law abiding citizen could still get one, but some angry kid with a credit card can't walk into Joe's Guns & Ammo and walk out with one the same day.

Can this actually happen in some states?
I should have been more clear, not with a supressor, no. Those being a federally controlled thing and all. Which is silly to me.

But I think it's pretty easy to make same day AR purchases in a lot of states so long as the NICS clears. Heck, I could be back at my house with one in 30 min, including time in traffic, if I wanted.
 

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