A "common sense" proposal that will piss off both sides

[VikingsGuy]

should we nominate you to run for congress

ickk

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

I think we are still finding out the long term effects of Social Media and people being dependent on a screen beaming something into their brain every waking moment.

I don't think too many people would argue that social media or violent media is good for our kids mental health, but no one seems to want to talk about it. What was it, 6-8 months ago, that the Facebook whistle blower said the company knew how harmful it was particularly for young girl. But what happened? Facebook rebrands and everyone pretends they didn't hear it.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Technical note: I was trying to "like" all civil responses regardless of my personal opinion - that worked for the first 125 or so - since then the flood of posts is too much so I will no longer be doing that.

 

[MTGomer]

I've often wondered if the 60's movement to get women in the workforce has a measurable effect on this type of thing. I'm absolutely not against women in the workforce or anything like that. But, like I said, I do wonder if that had unintended consequences on children, crime, etc. So many variables though, it might be impossible to really get the granularity needed to statistically back that up.

I do too. And Im married to an example of a success story of women into the workplace via STEM. Doctorate degree, high salary, respected type of career, etc. After all of that, she often remarks how it’s overrated and she would like to just stay home. In a couple years when the large student loans are paid off that might be what happens.

I have no doubt that if we had kids, they’d be better off with her at home, atleast until school starts, than they would be with her trying to juggle that along with a career.

How that would work for people even 5 years younger than me, just getting started in life, getting married and trying to buy a starter home for what they cost now, and then having and raising children on one salary….. seems impossible for most.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I would think that if we brought them here today, they would have started the 2nd Revolutionary War by now.

Nah, they would be busy binging Gilmore Girls

 

[Randi]

The school safety bill just codifies a clearinghouse that is already available. It obviously has not stopped school violence. I get that it's partisan hackery, but I also understand not giving them the out to say "we did something" when it's a big nothing-burger.

wasn't my point, but you made my point.

However, both parties have their talking points on why each of the two bills have gone down in defeat--Regardless, out of respect for
this thread, Vikingsguy, and the Forum. I will have no further comment in regards to this/these posts/issues

 

[88man]

Because any gun regulation seems out of the question, how about this. Create secure, staged entry for every primary school in US and hire a full time security guard. Let's estimate the cost. Google says (Google is your friend), 131,000 primary schools in US. Let's guesstimate it costs $200,000 for each school to create this dual-stage entry with intercoms and cameras and safety class, etc. Probably low, but it will work for this purpos and some newer schools already have them. At about 115m US households, that is a one-time tax of about $230. The security guard is a variable cost and depends a lot on locale. But let's say $80,000? Fair? that is an annual tax of $90.

Can we agree on that? Who is in?

sounds to cheap> guys on this board want more tax dollars than that

 

[VikingsGuy]

Wake up. This is the 21st century. The homestead militia as a national defense entity stopped being anything approaching practical or useful by 1860. And if you think a band of misfits could overthrow a "tyrannical" government with hunting rifles or even ARs, you are clearly delusional. To make that concept work everyone should have access to Blackhawk helicopters and SAM missiles. It's the only way a homemade militia could win. Read the history of Bloody Kansas or the REAL history of the Western Vigilantes. Probably more innocent people were strung up by vigilantes than real bad guys. One of Montana's early governors (Toole) narrowly escaped being accidentally executed in the middle of the night at a roadhouse on Evaro Hill. Fortunately, someone with enough credibility who could identify him happened to show up in the nick of time. My great uncle wasn't so lucky. Just a young kid, he was strung up in Lusk, WY on suspicion of horse theft. According to my great grandmother his real crime was being mentally retarded. And how about the group of seven Chinamen traveling through Montana to the Cariboo Gold Rush. A band of cattlemen vigilantes killed them all, apparently just for the sport of it. That militia mentality only served America up a lot of grief during its early growth. And it continues to do so. People who continue to think they need guns to overthrow the govt are so out of touch with reality they easily fit being classified deranged. Nuts with guns protected by the law = time to change the law so those nuts can't have guns. The louder you scream govt overthrow as essential to gun ownership, the more determined sensible 21st century Americans will be to take them away from you. Do the future of gun ownership a favor and drop the militia angle. Realistically it's nonsense and only hurts the cause.

This tone is NOT OK - take it somewhere else!

 

[woods89]

I think we are still finding out the long term effects of Social Media and people being dependent on a screen beaming something into their brain every waking moment.

I don't think too many people would argue that social media or violent media is good for our kids mental health, but no one seems to want to talk about it. What was it, 6-8 months ago, that the Facebook whistle blower said the company knew how harmful it was particularly for young girl. But what happened? Facebook rebrands and everyone pretends they didn't hear it.

I've been listening to some podcasts recently about landmark trial litigation. Several have dealt with cases involving tobacco companies. Same thing, they knew it was bad for people for a long time before they admitted it, and their own documents show that they exploited their customers as much as possible.
I don't think it's out of the question that we will look at social media in a similar light at some point in the future.

 

[jryoung]

And how much money did corporations make by increasing the supply of labor, which stagnated or lowered wages? I have no data, but it's something I've wondered about.

There is a huge component here. My wife always makes a joke that feminism lead to poor health and obesity. While she says it tongue and cheek there are some truths. First, that it gave rise to poorer quality highly processed foods and the food industry took advantage. Wages stagnated and now it's damn near impossible to be a middle class single earner household. Both parents need to work, if it's a divorced household it is likely even worse and some need to maintain two jobs. Income disparity has continued to grow and wages have stagnated since the 1970's

Just another piece of the very complicated puzzle.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Bro. That was Patrick Henry.

Irony alert

 

[woods89]

How that would work for people even 5 years younger than me, just getting started in life, getting married and trying to buy a starter home for what they cost now, and then having and raising children on one salary….. seems impossible for most.

I'm 33 and living this life right now. We have 4 children and my wife is a stay at home mom, which is her choice. There are many financial sacrifices for sure. Everything about our economy seems to be set up for 2 wage earner households.
For all that, watching my children growing up the way they are, it's totally worth it.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Probably something about disintegrating family values, godlessness, and immorality. Simply because 19 dead children and 2 dead teachers are Not all part of an inalienable right. There was murder before semi auto rifles and will be in the absence of them.

A deeper reading of 18th century colonial era shows a fair amount of debauchery, adultery, drunkenness, and absentee fathers.

 

[brocksw]

I'm 33 and living this life right now. We have 4 children and my wife is a stay at home mom, which is her choice. There are many financial sacrifices for sure. Everything about our economy seems to be set up for 2 wage earner households.
For all that, watching my children growing up the way they are, it's totally worth it.

You are a better man than I, I have 2 kids. We've tried to keep them out of daycare as much as possible, been successful for each for some periods of time. Hat's off to my wife right now for working a full time job from home and taking care of my 5 yr old daughter. I'm incredibly lucky.

 

[BucksnDucks]

Pretty good discussion so far. Most the initial talking point responses have been given on both sides. I would love to hear focused proposals broken down into

1. Here is the problem, specifically- mass shootings, school shootings, gun violence in general, or gang/drug violence
2. Here is a solution- background checks, gun bans, mag capacity etc.
3. Here is how and why it will work-It is my belief proposing new laws to stop criminals who are breaking current laws with utter disregard negatively affects only law-abiding citizens

 

[woods89]

You are a better man than I, I have 2 kids. We've tried to keep them out of daycare as much as possible, been successful for each for some periods of time. Hat's off to my wife right now for working a full time job from home and taking care of my 5 yr old daughter. I'm incredibly lucky.

I'm not going to take credit, my wife runs a tight ship.

 

[BucksnDucks]

A deeper reading of 18th century colonial era shows a fair amount of debauchery, adultery, drunkenness, and absentee fathers.

Plenty of that, murders also. My response was more directed at mass murders being more of a mental illness problem than a right to bear arms issue.

 

[A207X2]

I do too. And Im married to an example of a success story of women into the workplace via STEM. Doctorate degree, high salary, respected type of career, etc.

Damn! Does she have a sister?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Pretty good discussion so far. Most the initial talking point responses have been given on both sides. I would love to hear focused proposals broken down into

1. Here is the problem, specifically- mass shootings, school shootings, gun violence in general, or gang/drug violence
2. Here is a solution- background checks, gun bans, mag capacity etc.
3. Here is how and why it will work-It is my belief proposing new laws to stop criminals who are breaking current laws with utter disregard negatively affects only law-abiding citizens

Or could @wllm1313 just give us a pretty graph

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

And do you feel that it was a good thing for the state to insist you do so? Has it made you safer? Not being a smart ass or a trope statement. Do you believe that it has helped stem gun violence in MA? Serious question.

I'm not sure, anecdotally probably impossible to answer. I've only been here a short time, and the law has been around since 1998 I believe?

But, if I try to look at it objectively.... me personally safer? Well I've lived in three states MA, CO, and MT in the last decade.

MT has a pop of 1MM, up from 800M
CO has a pop of 5.8MM up from 4.2MM
MA has a pop of 6.8M up from 6.3M
So MA has had the least growth over time.

MA has always had the strict gun laws, it's also as much high median income, best healthcare system, best metal healthcare, and top education systems (top =top 5, let's not argue about rank) Point being any of those things could also lead to it being safer regardless of gun laws.

Firearm deaths, MA has about the same number as MT despite being much much larger and having a major us metro area.

Compared to Colorado MA has a fraction of the total deaths. CO is in a lot of ways a comparable state in terms of hospitals/education/ etc..

In the last 10 years the firearm mortality rate in CO and MT have increased a lot while MA has stayed pretty flat.




Are gun laws working, maybe. My argument is that if so it's because in MA there is a high barrier for entry and that fact keep people from owning them.

That being said the closest gun store to my house is in NH and it's kinda a free for all in NH comparatively.


So long answer, MA is certainly safer than CO, hard to say what MA's gun death rate would like had those laws not been passed, maybe they would be trending up like CO and MT.