17 yr old daughter recoil shy, need advice please.

[rachele39]

My 100 lb 17 yr old daughter and I have nevada muzzleloader deer tags. Shooting .50 cal inlines and I need to come up with a load for her, she doesn't like recoil and I don't want to turn her off from shooting a muzzleloader before she even starts. She also has vision problems and wears glasses, I didn't think it was that bad until after we drew tags and I had her look through my peep sight and she said she couldn't see s**t. It's ok (good enough) with open sights outside, NV doesn't allow the fiber optic sights so I'll get some bright nail polish for the front blade. I've hunted this area several times and pretty sure I can get her within 50 yards and she should be deadly. She's a great shot with a scoped rifle and nerves of steel (nailed her buck last year at 402 yards).
I shoot 2-50 grain Pyrodex pellets and 300 grain Hornady HP XTP saboted bullet and they work fantastic.
Was looking at ordering her the same bullets in 240 grains but saw that you can get them in 200 and 180 grain versions. Would like to save myself some time and get your take on it if anyone has used a lighter bullet and smaller powder charge for mule deer size animals and it be effective up to 75yards. I know what I'm using is more than enough now and I need to lighten it up for her just not sure how much. I picked up some loose Pyrodex RS to play with as well but need to order the bullets. Will get some 240 and 200 grain bullets but any help would be appreciated if anyone has kids or wives or just doesn't like a lot of recoil and has already figured it out. She's all or nothing, refuses to shoot a shotgun after we took her to shoot skeet and I locked the keys and her brand new .410 pump shotgun in the trunk when she was 12. While waiting for grandpa to bring us xtra keys my wife took her inside and the instructor took her out anyway, used his 12 gauge with my 75 lb kid, one shot, one busted lip and she's never fired a shotgun again. I'll take her out with the lead sled but the easier and more comfortable I can make it the better it is for me!

 

[Scott85]

I would say light loads until the hunt and then she wouldn’t notice the recoil.

 

[LopeHunter]

If have the time and patience, dial all the way back to a pellet gun that also has open sights. Get her used to shooting tight groups. Proper breathing.

She did fine with the rifle so maybe some more time target shooting with a pellet gun will make everything second nature for proper placement of the gun in the shoulder zone, breathing, using open sights. If possible, set up a target for the pellet gun inside the basement or garage where can dim the lights so she gets used to low light conditions.

The muzzle loader may look "bigger" (size of barrel might seem like is the 12 gauge with which she had the very negative experience) than the deer rifle to your daughter so assume the recoil will be much more intense. To me, the recoil of blackpowder is less as is not as "fast" as centerfire rifles.

 

[pabearhunter]

If have the time and patience, dial all the way back to a pellet gun that also has open sights. Get her used to shooting tight groups. Proper breathing.

She did fine with the rifle so maybe some more time target shooting with a pellet gun will make everything second nature for proper placement of the gun in the shoulder zone, breathing, using open sights. If possible, set up a target for the pellet gun inside the basement or garage where can dim the lights so she gets used to low light conditions.

The muzzle loader may look "bigger" (size of barrel might seem like is the 12 gauge with which she had the very negative experience) than the deer rifle to your daughter so assume the recoil will be much more intense. To me, the recoil of blackpowder is less as is not as "fast" as centerfire rifles.

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[338 win mag]

I shot either 70 or 80 grains of loose powder and 240gr growing up (12 or 13) killed several deer as well as my first buck at around 100 yards. Even with the lighter powder charge blood trails were easy to follow. Might try a hollow point style bullet that will allow good expansion at low velocities. I shot saboted 44 mag pistol bullets.

 

[ShortAction]

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[Sawtooth]

Make sure she has a good set of ear muffs to reduce the noise as well. Felt recoil often appears greater then it is if the shooter does not have good ear protection. I often have new shooters wear ear plugs under a pair of quality ear muffs.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I had my kids practice with the same bullet but only 50 grains of powder. I kept the practice ranges short (less than 50 yards) and bullet drop was minimal. When it came time to hunt I loaded up a full charge. My eight year old didn’t remember feeling the recoil when he shot his first deer.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Good earmuffs and reduced loads. Teach her how to float the front sight and properly press the trigger. I personally would do some super light loads, and when you do practice, she doesn’t know if the gun is loaded or not.

Session would look like this:
4-5 shots with light loads to get a baseline of accuracy.
Switch to a new spot on the target.
Shoot 7-8 live loads, alternating in about 15-20 NO loads.

Session 1 would put your finger on top of her trigger finger and YOU press
Session 2 you put your finger on trigger, she puts hers on top of yours and SHE presses
Session 3 she does all the trigger work

Do this and you’ll see a drastic improvement in quality of trigger presses and reduced flinch.

 

[rachele39]

She’s been shooting pellet and BB guns with open sights all her life. Shoots pistols up to .40 cal and rifles up to her .243. She just doesn’t like the recoil of the larger calibers. She’ll have to suck it up a little if it kicks more than she likes. When she’s excited she doesn’t feel anything anyway! It’s the time at the gun range that I have to deal with, she is stubborn as can be. I have to pick my battles. Sticking it in the lead sled will be fine I think. I know the 240 grain xtp hollow point version of what I’m shooting will do the job but hoping someone has used something like the 200 grain version I didn’t know they made. Don’t really want to find out on a deer if someone already has. Probably will just go with the 240 grain bullet and play with the powder a little like 338 win mag’s load. Start at 70 grains and go up or down from there.
She has good basics, problem is she was born 3 months early (21 ounces) and has had eye issues since birth. The last couple years they discovered some rare eye problem that has caused her pupil on her (right) shooting eye to start deforming (oblong shape) and messes with her depth perception/focusing on objects and the way light enters. It’s making it more difficult to use open sights and she says she can’t see through the peep sight we’ll enough to use that rifle (already using the largest aperture). Will try the other rifle with open sights and paint the front blade. If that doesn’t work she’ll have to switch it up and shoot left handed with the other eye. She has always shot right handed as that was her dominant eye but she’s left handed/ambidextrous the rest of the time.
Thanks again to JLS, he gave my daughter a pair of boots she’ll be chasing NV mule deer in come September. And good advice from all, thank you.
She is hyper sensitive to just about everything especially noise, she has to wear earplugs/earmuffs at just about any event that has any kind of noise, races, concerts, graduations, everything. Don’t know if we used earplugs under her earmuffs but will give that a try. Will also start with really light loads and work my way up till we get lethal. Thanks again.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Skip the lead sled and teach her to shoot the gun.

 

[Werty]

Lead sled is a great tool in getting people familiar with shooting gun. I use them to verify all my guns, it helps on not creating bad habits.

 

[Nick87]

I shot either 70 or 80 grains of loose powder and 240gr growing up (12 or 13) killed several deer as well as my first buck at around 100 yards. Even with the lighter powder charge blood trails were easy to follow. Might try a hollow point style bullet that will allow good expansion at low velocities. I shot saboted 44 mag pistol bullets.

2nd this. I put 70 grains of loose powder in my then 9 year old step son's muzzleloader with 250 gr. Hornady sabots. Super accurate load he shot his first deer at around 40 yards passed through both shoulder blades.

 

[rachele39]

Well, she’s 6 months away from being legal age and able to tell me to get lost. I hope she’ll want to keep hunting with me, I think I’ll try to keep her happy if I can. We were looking for bullets online and saw a flintlock rifle kit and the fact that she was game to put one together and hunt with it is pretty cool. We’ll see how the in-line goes first and if she’s still game, it’s next. I can’t see pushing her till she no longer enjoys it and won’t go with me, that would be devastating.

 

[rachele39]

Sounds like the plan nick87. .50 cal 240 grain Hornady HP XTP in the green sabot and loose pyrodex so I can play with the powder but 70 grains sounds about right. Have used the 300 grain version for years and love them. Thank you.

 

[Treeshark]

I know this sounds stupid, but maybe have her wear a life jacket while practicing- it works extremely well absorbing recoil. I still do this and it works awesome zeroing in those weapons that bite (.444, 12 gauge with slugs etc).

 

[Werty]

Here is another angle, get her a bow. Most tags like that you can use a bow if you want. It may be better for her in the long run.

 

[Western Traveler1]

I would disagree regarding muzzleloader having less recoil but I am a novice with one. I had to add weight to my lead sled to tame it a bit. I would compare it to shooting slugs in my shotgun. If she is used to shooting a .243 it’s different than that.
How about she fires the muzzleloader with the lightest loads you can put together so that she gets used to the weight and balance of the gun and dry fire practices with it. Then you work up a load for the hunt. One shot at a deer I’m betting will go unnoticed by her.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I would disagree regarding muzzleloader having less recoil but I am a novice with one. I had to add weight to my lead sled to tame it a bit. I would compare it to shooting slugs in my shotgun. If she is used to shooting a .243 it’s different than that.
How about she fires the muzzleloader with the lightest loads you can put together so that she gets used to the weight and balance of the gun and dry fire practices with it. Then you work up a load for the hunt. One shot at a deer I’m betting will go unnoticed by her.

That sounds like a practical approach.
My attitude about what my kids and grandkids are comfortable shooting compels me to accept their personal decisions. My daughter (an accomplished sharpshooter) decided not to pull the trigger on an animal, so that's okay. My son ( in his forties) shoots many calibers and has taken big game every year since twelve years old. Grandson (12 years old) has taken two nice mulies and is excited about shooting larger calibers for elk and moose (feeling unrealistically confident of winning a super tag ).

The point is that if your daughter likes shooting and hunting with a 243, then let her go with that caliber. The premise that your kids want to do what you like to do is too often invalid.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Will she notice that you are using different bullets and more powder? My daughter would and I'd be sunk. If that's the case make sure you use the same style of bullet and try to hide the powder when dumped.

Also I like the lighter weight bullets and low powder weights for practice. I've never been able to get much less than 70 to perform consistently but at 50 yds that may not be an issue anyway.

Would a larger ghost ring help on the sights instead of a peep?