Yellowstone wolf population is declining

[Panda Bear]

sytes. let me clear up my post a bit. I have zero knowledge of who kills what the most in Yellowstone and perhaps I should have stated that. My apologies. In the Territories of Canada and the Northeaster part of Alaska the number of moose kills by Grizzly's are pretty high. We have no roads--very few anyway, so moose deaths via car/truck are not going to happen often. Wolves do take their fair share of Moose and Caribou.

Since your speaking of yellowstone, I will bow out of the conversation/thread

 

[Sytes]

No worries Panda. It's always valuable to understand the dynamics when faced with similar situations. Certain aspects apply while others may not be relative.

 

[BrentD]

Immediate kill - may be correct (?) What is this based on? There are published / peer reviewed research that present the polar opposite when considering the effect of wolves and elk. Mind you griz and cougars were present prior to the wolves re-introduction to the GYE and the studied effects of this new dynamic.

I have no idea to what "Immediate kill" refers, nor why it would much matter.

What are the polar opposites you see in the literature? I'm not seeing it in most of the salient points relevant to people here. There seems to be near unanimous agreement that wolves have depressed elk. That was expected and turned out to be right. The only real disagreements I see are the mechanisms of HOW wolves depress elk, or at least what are the important components of that interaction. I have had the joy or mediating some of those disagreements and it has been interesting and enlightening. Most of them are, in my opinion, failures to communicate (perhaps willfully) with respect to matters of scale, and not true incompatibilities.

 

[RobG]

It may be just the internet, but FWP biologist Julie Cunningham told me vehicle mortality is a significant contributor to declining moose populations in Gallatin Canyon.

 

[tjones]

It may be just the internet, but FWP biologist Julie Cunningham told me vehicle mortality is a significant contributor to declining moose populations in Gallatin Canyon.

Lots know this, but without a link to the iddernent some won’t believe it.

 

[Point Creep]

It may be just the internet, but FWP biologist Julie Cunningham told me vehicle mortality is a significant contributor to declining moose populations in Gallatin Canyon.

You have got to be kidding me

 

[onpoint]

It may be just the internet, but FWP biologist Julie Cunningham told me vehicle mortality is a significant contributor to declining moose populations in Gallatin Canyon.

Good luck with that one, RobG - I wouldn't touch that one with a ten foot pole....................................................................................................................................................................

 

[RobG]

Oh dear, the protest to my comment has made me sad.

As I understood it, the loss was significant, which doesn’t mean that it was the only factor or even the most important factor.

 

[onpoint]

it's just the internet......

 

[Point Creep]

Oh dear, the protest to my comment has made me sad.

As I understood it, the loss was significant, which doesn’t mean that it was the only factor or even the most important factor.

Ha. Just what would those other important factor be? Other than a measurement of having 80% hunter success to gauge your quotas with..

 

[Sytes]

@BrentD The adverse effects of derailed content. Topic of this thread, "Yellowstone wolf population is declining". Your quoted post on this page (pg 4) and the topic suggests an opinion differing within the Yellowstone ecosystem... wolves and the corresponding ungulate population. Attrition ratios, etc.
I doubt interest is to remain on topic so, lets roll with it, right? Moose within the Jackson herd... 4 lost this year... wait, let's back that up a bit and re-read the linked article... 4 moose have been struck in vehicle collisions since the summer of 2018.
Ya, I would reckon more of the Jackson herd moose have been taken by bears than 4 by vehicle collisions since the Summer of '18.
It's challenging to find bear info however, here is a wolf report from 2012.

Some 43 moose, including 25 cows, were found wolf-killed by Grand Teton and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service researchers during the winters of 2010 and 2011. Preliminary data shows another 13 were killed during 2012, Grand Teton biologist Steve Cain said. Wildlife officials have been dealing with a Jackson Hole moose herd in decline for years.

 

[RobG]

Ha. Just what would those other important factor be? Other than a measurement of having 80% hunter success to gauge your quotas with..

I don’t know and I don’t really care. Why don’t you two quit bitching and start contributing. I just found it interesting that it was enough to be a factor.

 

[onpoint]

".......something more then off pointed jests........"

Sytes, your favorite topic is so much fun to have fun with.
And the "onpoint" may just refer to this:


And may have nothing to do with "topics at hand". By the way, try using "than", rather than "then".
As you say - all in jest.
Back to the big bad woofs..............................

 

[Sytes]

ah shucks, on point... I removed it - concerned Brent would think of it as something intended for him... however, you... You slick, pointer... you caught it. Damn! Y'er good...

And now - grammar nazi, you've become. (That's Yoda lingo)

Anything to add to the topic or just being your usual self? Bah... I enjoy your rhetoric. brings sunshine upon a cloudy day...

 

[Point Creep]

I don’t know and I don’t really care. Why don’t you two quit bitching and start contributing. I just found it interesting that it was enough to be a factor.

Not Contributing ? As in not giving Julie my personal input on the moose in the Gallatin?

 

[RobG]

Not Contributing ? As in not giving Julie my personal input on the moose in the Gallatin?

No, that's not what I meant. You and Onpoint just threw shit on everything without adding any facts of your own. I try to have a good sense of humor about these things the first time or two, but that crap isn't really why I come here.

By contributing I meant why don't you tell us what you think is going on with the moose. I can see from the regs that it wouldn't take much road kill to exceed the legal harvest.

 

[Point Creep]

No, that's not what I meant. You and Onpoint just threw shit on everything without adding any facts of your own. I try to have a good sense of humor about these things the first time or two, but that crap isn't really why I come here.

By contributing I meant why don't you tell us what you think is going on with the moose. I can see from the regs that it wouldn't take much road kill to exceed the legal harvest.

What is going on with the moose? You tell me. The quota is low because fwp believes there needs to be an 80% hunter success rate. Already said that. Problem is hunters nowadays expect a guaranteed harvest with a rare once in a lifetime type hunt and if they don’t find it - there’s obviously some issue , and in this case it’s with moose. Does FWP have a clue how many moose are in the “Gallatin”?

Unrelated here’s Gallatin peak from the south today at daylight..

 

[RobG]

Kurt, I know you are a big boy and can take it so I will be honest. That is not a very good picture of Gallatin Peak.

I bet it was a hot day to be packing that beast out.

 

[Point Creep]

I have better pictures - not too bad packing it out , we got it cooled quickly and there were 4 of us. It’s on ice in the garage now

 

[onpoint]

No, that's not what I meant. You and Onpoint just threw shit on everything without adding any facts of your own. I try to have a good sense of humor about these things the first time or two, but that crap isn't really why I come here.

By contributing I meant why don't you tell us what you think is going on with the moose. I can see from the regs that it wouldn't take much road kill to exceed the legal harvest.

Rob, for this just being the internet - you're awful sensitive. And assuming.
From my post, how could you tell whether I was:
A. Doubting that the area biologist could surmise moose road mortality was actually significant. Additive, compensatory, negligible, or otherwise - where's the data?
or
B. Agreeing with Julie. As I stated earlier - I see more moose now (in the US 191 corridor) than the past. In particular, cows w/ calves. Could it be that all the predator pressure pushes the cows to find security along the highway corridor - less teeth along the road than away? Thus the highway becomes a compensating killer?? I saw the same cow and newborn calf at Red Cliff three consecutive mornings in June. See this commonly..........



Longtime competent, very sharp, now retired FWP fisheries biologist, Dick Oswald (Dillon) summed it up - "without data, you're just another asshole with an opinion". Lot of opinion(s) on this stuff EVERYWHERE.

How's that for contribution? And which way do I fall - roadkill a significant factor or not?????
I'll forward a hurt feelings report to the proper authorities