Yellowstone Elk Count

[P&Y]

Just curious if this was done this year, Never read or heard anything of it. Thanks!

 

[gman82001]

11... Just messing I havent heard anything except the calf to cow count on the elk refuge and i think it was like 12 or 16 to 100 if I remember correctly

 

[Big Fin]

I will bet dollars to doughnuts it won't be done this year. I have a suspicion they don't want the public to know the results.

I will shoot an email to some people I know who worked on the counts in the past and try find out the story.

Those surveys might be one of those "budget cuts of convenience."

 

[shoots-straight]

I will bet dollars to doughnuts it won't be done this year. I have a suspicion they don't want the public to know the results.

I will shoot an email to some people I know who worked on the counts in the past and try find out the story.

Those surveys might be one of those "budget cuts of convenience."

That's one of my pet peeves. How can you mange without accurate game populations counts. No wonder we are in the mess we are.

 

[Art Vandeley]

Who wants to pay non-resident fee's to hunt a herd of 103 elk... I am guessing Randy's right. They can't afford to do the count this year

 

[Elkmagnet]

That's one of my pet peeves. How can you mange without accurate game populations counts. No wonder we are in the mess we are.

If you think about it. If you bury your head in the sand you can't hear anyone questioning why your thumb is so far up your @$$. Thats management 101.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Ask Bill Hoppe of Gardiner. I heard he had all fourteen in his yard last week.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Anybody know what the objective number is for that herd?

 

[Randy49er]

IMHO the people that are "in charge" and their budgets should be audited every 6 months, just to see what the Cat Hair they are spending the funds on. There seems to be enough to have the latest equipment, travel expenses and meetings held from here to Timbuktu. I for one, would love to see a breakdown of where the license and tag fees go.

"They can't afford to do the count this year."

 

[Ben Lamb]

IMHO the people that are "in charge" and their budgets should be audited every 6 months, just to see what the Cat Hair they are spending the funds on. There seems to be enough to have the latest equipment, travel expenses and meetings held from here to Timbuktu. I for one, would love to see a breakdown of where the license and tag fees go.

"They can't afford to do the count this year."

1.) You would actually spend more money in the audit that would have to be taken away from other program areas.

2.) FWP's budget is a public document and is gone through by the legislature. It is available upon request.

 

[shoots-straight]

Anybody know what the objective number is for that herd?

HD 310 is objective of 1500 observed. The count was 397
HD 311 is objective of 2700 observed. The count was 2096 Last counted 2008
HD 312 is objective of 600 observed. The count was 869 Last counted 2007
HD 313 is objective of 4000 observed. The count was 3259
HD 314 is objective of 3000 observed. The count was 2977

That was after 2011 counts last year for the other HD's not listed.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Looks like HB 42 was successful then.

In the reintroduction EIS, there is a lot of talk about the Northern Herd and what wolves would do to it. IIRC, the recommendation was to scale back on tags and the late season hunt to allow for the decline to happen more gradually. That was in 1995.

HB 42 passed in 2003. I wonder, if that bill hadn't passed, would FWP have reduced the available opportunity to shoot those elk?

Wolves surely have a role in the decline, but more than anything else, the Legislature pushed it off the edge.

 

[shoots-straight]

What the hell is up with this? We are at objective there, so we give more B-tags?

Elk B License. Drawing only. Apply by June 1.​

314-80: 200 licenses.​

• Sept 01 - Oct 14 — Antlerless Elk. Archery Only Season.​

• Oct 20 - Nov 25 — Antlerless Elk.

 

[shoots-straight]

I just looked back to 2004 regs. In that year they still were giving out 1400 antlerless elk tags good for Jan 7 through Feb 14.

I know that it wasn't too much farther back from there that they still gave out 3000 of those tags.

 

[Big Fin]

What the hell is up with this? We are at objective there, so we give more B-tags?

We have a winner!

Yeah, a Park County Commissioner was in Helena at the FWP meeting two weeks ago talking that we have too many elk over there. Then he said we don't have as many elk as people think, as the wolves have pushed them all into the open areas and they are easier to count, whereas before they were hard to count in the timber. Then he said that brucellosis is the biggest problem to getting more elk tolerance. Then he said the wolves were eating them all.



I guess the default position for season structure is that shooting an extra cow elk with a B tag is the one silver bullet that solves the enitre mix of problems that commissioner mentioned.

But wait, I read in a blog post that there is no political influence on elk management in Montana.

 

[1_pointer]

What the hell is up with this? We are at objective there, so we give more B-tags?

Since that HD is only 23 animals under objective, I'm guessing they are county on recruitment to be more than 23. Thus, the antlerless elk tags. Again, that's just a guess...

 

[shoots-straight]

Since that HD is only 23 animals under objective, I'm guessing they are county on recruitment to be more than 23. Thus, the antlerless elk tags. Again, that's just a guess...

At 23 in a predator rich environment you still loosing animals, not gaining.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Since that HD is only 23 animals under objective, I'm guessing they are county on recruitment to be more than 23. Thus, the antlerless elk tags. Again, that's just a guess...

I read that since 2007 calf recruitment has been well below objectives.

 

[tjones]

One needs to remember "within objective" is +-20%. HD314 can drop another 600 elk before lights and sirens start going off.

 

[Ben Lamb]

danged wolves!