Wolves

[BrentD]

Maybe some of you would be interested in a collection of wolf studies publish in The Journal of Mammalogy over the last 15 yrs or so. They are being offered for public viewing for at least a limited time. They cover a wide spectrum of topics including wolves in Finland, interactions with coyotes, habitat usage, sheep conflicts and so on. They were just posted today, so I thought I would post a link here for those who might be interested in original literature studies. It is very far from a complete collection of wolf publications, however.

Wolves Research Collection

Wolves are the largest members of the dog family (Canidae), with as many as five extant species recognized globally (some other dog-like mammals are called wolv

academic.oup.com

 

[mtmuley]

There's a reason the sportsman got rid of the wolves in the first place....it's unfortunate they were brought back only so we can hopefully get rid of them again. At least I already have one mounted so I won't be sad when they're gone!

This is the type of shit, albeit a mild case, of what most believe about wolves. I don't like having to deal with them, but at least I educate myself. mtmuley

 

[Gerald Martin]

@theat, I was going to say when I saw the picture of GG’s wolf that I bet you shot it in the butt with a dart before GG did.

 

[shoots-straight]

There's a reason the sportsman got rid of the wolves in the first place....it's unfortunate they were brought back only so we can hopefully get rid of them again. At least I already have one mounted so I won't be sad when they're gone!

No sportsman did not get rid of wolves. Ranchers and Government trappers did and not by sporting means. Dumb post.

 

[Lee bergstrom]

I think in all states where there are wolves the population is much higher than is being reported.

 

[shoots-straight]

I think in all states where there are wolves the population is much higher than is being reported.

It's great everyone has an opinion to give.

 

[hank4elk]

I read recently that the wolf numbers in the wild now in the NM/AZ greys are 5 times what was previously reported. I'm trying to find out where it was.
Hear lot's of "reports" of cattle loss locally and did see a cell pick of a 6 member pack on ranch where one "report" came from. I have seen cattle killed by wolves,afterwards.
But I don't believe half of what I hear here anyway.

 

[RobertD]

I read recently that the wolf numbers in the wild now in the NM/AZ greys are 5 times what was previously reported. I'm trying to find out where it was.
Hear lot's of "reports" of cattle loss locally and did see a cell pick of a 6 member pack on ranch where one "report" came from. I have seen cattle killed by wolves,afterwards.
But I don't believe half of what I hear here anyway.

Hank in what part of NM are the wolves most often seen? No reason, I'm just curious

 

[Ben Lamb]

I think in all states where there are wolves the population is much higher than is being reported.

I think this is likely true. They're tough to count, generally avoid human disturbance & live in heavy cover.

But the methodology accounts for that, so while I do think they're higher in numbers than some agencies state, it's probably not significantly more (maybe 10-15%).

Wolves have a tendency to bring out either the best in a human, or the worst.

 

[shoots-straight]

How wolves are counted.

A little info for the not so well informed.

 

[Panda Bear]

I think this is likely true. They're tough to count, generally avoid human disturbance & live in heavy cover.

But the methodology accounts for that, so while I do think they're higher in numbers than some agencies state, it's probably not significantly more (maybe 10-15%).

Wolves have a tendency to bring out either the best in a human, or the worst.

Thank you. I have not replied up to this time as I might be the only one on the forum that actually likes the wolf. I feel they have a role to play and that they are also used as a scapegoat at times. Before clear cutting, oil and mineral exploration and mining, as well as the roads --in short overall damage to the land and waterways , wolfs and caribou lived together for years--centuries. But according to our Govt it is the wolves fault, not the raping of the land, that has put the Woodland Caribou, at risk. They spent 3 million to kill approx 500 wolves---to protect the Caribou.

I enjoy hearing them at night when around a campfire, I enjoying watching a pack of Arctic wolves move through the snow. I appreciate that they were here way before I was and have a much right to the land as I do.

But, our Wolves, were not "introduced" or "reintroduced " and therefore my feelings toward this animal would be, and from reading a couple of the posts on this thread, "are" different than others.

The "sportsman" who rid the US of wolves also nearly rid us of bison, elk, and bighorn sheep just to name a few. You would be wise to investigate the history of these "sportsman" and their true motives.

this would be my thought as well.

As to "knowing" exactly how many we or you have. It is not an exact science for sure and I sometimes wonder, even worry, if our Govt doesn't move the numbers one way or another to fit their narrative

 

[Ben Lamb]

Thank you. I have not replied up to this time as I might be the only one on the forum that actually likes the wolf. I feel they have a role to play and that they are also used as a scapegoat at times. Before clear cutting, oil and mineral exploration and mining, as well as the roads --in short overall damage to the land and waterways , wolfs and caribou lived together for years--centuries. But according to our Govt it is the wolves fault, not the raping of the land, that has put the Woodland Caribou, at risk. They spent 3 million to kill approx 500 wolves---to protect the Caribou.

I enjoy hearing them at night when around a campfire, I enjoying watching a pack of Arctic wolves move through the snow. I appreciate that they were here way before I was and have a much right to the land as I do.

But, our Wolves, were not "introduced" or "reintroduced " and therefore my feelings toward this animal would be, and from reading a couple of the posts on this thread, "are" different than others.

this would be my thought as well.

As to "knowing" exactly how many we or you have. It is not an exact science for sure and I sometimes wonder, even worry, if our Govt doesn't move the numbers one way or another to fit their narrative

I worked since 2002 to get wolves delisted in the Rockies. I've spent more time on those animals than any other, and I have no illusions about them, like you - but I see in them the green fire that Leopold spoke of. A fire that we are losing in favor of comfort & ease.

The wolves of NW Montana & northern Idaho naturally repopulated the area. The Yellowstone wolves were reintroduced so that management options would be greater for livestock producers who suffered the consequences.

Humans hate competition, and assign ludicrous motivations to wild animals. Quite frankly, your view of wolves is perhaps the closest to mine. I support the hunting & trapping of them, recognize their impacts, but also recognize their right to exist. What a sad an lonely world without them.

 

[Panda Bear]

. I support the hunting & trapping of them, recognize their impacts, but also recognize their right to exist. What a sad an lonely world without them.

Exactly,

So many today, it is all "this", or all "that" and it doesn't need to be and in many cases should not be.

We also hunt the wolf and at the same time enjoy his presence and "right" to be here. We enjoy watching a caribou herd move across the land but we hunt them as well. But, I am not trying to equate my situation with a cattle rancher in Montana, as from afar, I can only imagine his anger to find wolves have killed off some of his livelihood.

But, the one post on this thread sort of struck me wrong, and it moved me to post in defense of them. I am not sure we have the right to decide which species gets to continue living and which one needs to be eliminated to extinction. Just the thoughts of someone NOT in your country or situation, thanks for letting me share my thoughts with you .

 

[Gerald Martin]

@Panda Bear and @Ben Lamb. Stop typing. You aren't expressing enough hyperbole to have your viewpoints matter.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I wonder what would happen if hunters took matters into their own hands to SSS the biggest threat to healthy elk herds in MT? I doubt that would be "socially acceptable".....

BTW, the biggest threat to healthy elk herds isn't woofs or grizz.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Exactly,

So many today, it is all "this", or all "that" and it doesn't need to be and in many cases should not be.

We also hunt the wolf and at the same time enjoy his presence and "right" to be here. We enjoy watching a caribou herd move across the land but we hunt them as well. But, I am not trying to equate my situation with a cattle rancher in Montana, as from afar, I can only imagine his anger to find wolves have killed off some of his livelihood.

But, the one post on this thread sort of struck me wrong, and it moved me to post in defense of them. I am not sure we have the right to decide which species gets to continue living and which one needs to be eliminated to extinction. Just the thoughts of someone NOT in your country or situation, thanks for letting me share my thoughts with you .

This is a core tenant of my conservation philosophy, and it's echoed throughout our elders teachings. Leopold wrote of cogs in the wheel of the natural world, and what fools we are to think that the maker didn't know exactly what he was doing when he made all creatures.

Humans are put on this earth to be it's steward, not it's master. We are failing woefully in that regard.

 

[Ben Lamb]

"I see in them the green fire that leopold spoke of. A fire that we are losing in favor of comfort and ease ."
That is so romantic . I peed a little bit when I read it .

Thanks for proving the point.

 

[hcenvinc]

Thats my concern alot of what u stated. I think theres more wolves than they know or care also.

Same here in Minnesota. Wisconsin harvested a bunch and all the tree huggers are crying like babies

 

[hank4elk]

Hank in what part of NM are the wolves most often seen? No reason, I'm just curious

I'm north of the Apache forest and from here around Quemado/Pie Town to Magdelena,north to Fence Lake. From here south & west for sure.
I've seen 2 within 5 miles of my place and found tracks here.
Most of the Gila country has wolves now. Seen a dozen or so there.

 

[RobertD]

I'm north of the Apache forest and from here around Quemado/Pie Town to Magdelena,north to Fence Lake. From here south & west for sure.
I've seen 2 within 5 miles of my place and found tracks here.
Most of the Gila country has wolves now. Seen a dozen or so there.

Interesting, thanks for the reply. I wonder if they make it north past Albuquerque or not. Wolves from CO may come south towards Chama/TA area first. Who knows.