Wisconsin is about to eliminate minimum age for hunting!!

[maxx]

maxx---A number of members, including myself, addressed the fact that 34 other states have no age restrictions and there have been very few problems because of it!

Yup but none of the guys against it addressed it. If I was so adamantly against it I would address getting it turn around in those 34 states instead of just saying well one more shouldn't do it.

The line of thinking doesn't compute with me.

 

[maxx]

Maxx, thank you for your response. I agree with many of your points. I haven't hunted outside of Wisconsin so I can't say for certain, but I don't believe that I'm going out on a limb when I say that, unfortunately, a lot of these issues are all too common in a lot of places.

You are right they are common in a lot of other places but a lot of other places don't have 600k hunters during a 9 day season with limited access to public ground. The issues are the same at other places I just feel like they are compounded more so in WI.

For the record you wouldn't catch me on Public ground in Iowa during either of the 2 shotgun seasons.

 

[tjones]

A kid should learn more from their mentor out in the field than any hunters Ed will ever teach them.

"Should" being the key word. Some mentors shouldn't be hunting.

We went through this same thing in Montana a few years back. All the same arguments from both sides.


Every parent thinks their kid is the next Steven Rinella, I know things are different in the east but 6 and 7 year olds out here have no business hunting elk on their own tag.. Since the OP was talking WI, maybe it could work as WI hunting has to be considerably different then MT.

As far as the question why not let parents decide when the kid is ready, the main thing I remember hearing was game belongs to the state, that means the game and fish depts have to do whats best for the majority of the folks of that state not just the young kids. It is a public resource and must be managed in the best interest of the entire public.

 

[TimeOnTarget]

"Should" being the key word. Some mentors shouldn't be hunting.

We went through this same thing in Montana a few years back. All the same arguments from both sides.


Every parent thinks their kid is the next Steven Rinella, I know things are different in the east but 6 and 7 year olds out here have no business hunting elk on their own tag.. Since the OP was talking WI, maybe it could work as WI hunting has to be considerably different then MT.

As far as the question why not let parents decide when the kid is ready, the main thing I remember hearing was game belongs to the state, that means the game and fish depts have to do whats best for the majority of the folks of that state not just the young kids. It is a public resource and must be managed in the best interest of the entire public.

Very True. Every year I encounter adults who think chasing deer across ag fields with a pickup while hanging out the window blazing away is hunting.

The thing is, these kids are gunna follow in their parents foot steps no matter what age they start hunting at or what kind of hunter ed class they take.

 

[El Jason]

"Should" being the key word. Some mentors shouldn't be hunting.

You're exactly right with this Tony. This then leads to the age old question of "how much do you penalize society because of the dipshits of the world?
" My daughter shot her first deer at age 9, but I didn't take her elk hunting until she was 13. She wasn't ready. She did however, gain some very good hunting experience and an appreciation for hunting on our deer trips.

You'd be a lot better served by eliminating the adult idiots from the population. As I said, kids with poor mentors will do stupid shit regardless of their age. Very few young hunters are going to make sound decisions of their own accord and without mentor influence until they are in their late teens. They operate on the example they see.

 

[Zach]

Some of you folks must know a lot of crappy people...

MTGomer, thanks for the laugh.

 

[brymoore]

This topic always get people wound up. My three kids started big game hunting at different ages due to the law change in Idaho, starting at ages 10, 11 and 12. All three hiked along on hunts prior to hunting themselves and all three passed hunters ed before hunting. From my experience, I see no reason why to hold kids back from hunting before age 12 if the parents support the decision. All my kids enjoyed their first seasons and I’ve never had a safety issue. If a parent thinks their kid isn’t ready, they should hold them back. I know kids in this situation.

I don’t understand the hysteria about a mentor carrying a rifle or not letting the youth carry a rifle. I let my kids carry their rifles. They’re hunters - let them act like hunters They also pack meat. I’ve been involved in seven kills this year. Five with youth. On two occasions my youth hunters had rifle jams or scope fogging and I handed my rifle to them to use. My rifle has had a better season than me! I can leave it at home or carry it as seven pounds of insurance. I’m not carrying it to out hunt the kids.

Hunter recruitment is declining nationwide. Youth hunters are literally the future of hunting. Hunters should encourage programs that bring youth hunters into the industry and stop worrying about myths about safety or loosing tags to youth.

 

[maxx]

This topic always get people wound up. My three kids started big game hunting at different ages due to the law change in Idaho, starting at ages 10, 11 and 12. All three hiked along on hunts prior to hunting themselves and all three passed hunters ed before hunting. From my experience, I see no reason why to hold kids back from hunting before age 12 if the parents support the decision. All my kids enjoyed their first seasons and I’ve never had a safety issue. If a parent thinks their kid isn’t ready, they should hold them back. I know kids in this situation.

I don’t understand the hysteria about a mentor carrying a rifle or not letting the youth carry a rifle. I let my kids carry their rifles. They’re hunters - let them act like hunters They also pack meat. I’ve been involved in seven kills this year. Five with youth. On two occasions my youth hunters had rifle jams or scope fogging and I handed my rifle to them to use. My rifle has had a better season than me! I can leave it at home or carry it as seven pounds of insurance. I’m not carrying it to out hunt the kids.

Hunter recruitment is declining nationwide. Youth hunters are literally the future of hunting. Hunters should encourage programs that bring youth hunters into the industry and stop worrying about myths about safety or loosing tags to youth.

Awesome thanks for using your time to take kids. My wife has asked me if there was anything I would like to get into as I get older and I said I would like to get people into hunting whether that is youth, disabled, vets or even adults that just want to try it but haven't been shown a path.

I hope my time comes where I can give back a little but right now it is my time to take my kids and raise them doing this. That is #1 priority for me in the next 10 years! The older I get the less I care about getting mine in, I just need a few days a year to myself.

Big thumbs up for better example on why having a extra gun isn't a bad idea, that is exactly why I have had an extra when I have carried it.

 

[fwagner]

You are right they are common in a lot of other places but a lot of other places don't have 600k hunters during a 9 day season with limited access to public ground. The issues are the same at other places I just feel like they are compounded more so in WI.

For the record you wouldn't catch me on Public ground in Iowa during either of the 2 shotgun seasons.

Im from Iowa but have lived in Wisconsin since 2003...if you can't find public land to hunt in Wisconsin you are either illiterate, lazy, or are afraid of computers. Wisconsin has plenty, PLENTY, of public land hunting opportunities. Iowa is a worthless state for public land hunting.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I hope some grumpy old men don't have a coronary when Randy airs an episode where a 10 year old apprentice hunter shoots a big buck.


Since Montana started allowing mentored hunting there has been headline after headline in the papers where mentored hunters have rampantly engaged in legal and ethical violations, fulfilling the predictions of all the naysayers who were adamantly opposed to the mentoring program. *

(*fake news.)

 

[maxx]

Im from Iowa but have lived in Wisconsin since 2003...if you can't find public land to hunt in Wisconsin you are either illiterate, lazy, or are afraid of computers. Wisconsin has plenty, PLENTY, of public land hunting opportunities. Iowa is a worthless state for public land hunting.

Awesome name calling!!! Ya there is more public land in WI but there are 4 times the hunters also.

Like I said I don't go to WI anymore to kill deer. I go there to go to deer camp and hang with the boys. We have our spots that we have hunted for years. Some public and some semi public. I kill a deer almost every year and every 5 to 6 years I kill a decent buck.

The thing is I don't really care if I kill a deer nor do I want to work real hard at it there anymore. Like I said I go to experience deer camp and hang out. If I never killed another whitetail with a rifle or gun it wouldn't bother me. Don't take that as saying I am going to stop just if someone made me decide between a gun or a bow I am taking a bow every time.

I put my time and effort into killing big deer here in Iowa. WI is a social event for me. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[maxx]

Wisconsin has one of the worst Governors, especially if you hunt public land, in the country and we are his signature away from having no minimum age for youth hunters. I personally think it's a terrible law and a minimum age should be required but what really takes the cake is that the law allows for the parent or mentor to ALSO carry a firearm along side the learning and inexperienced hunter. As a professional who works with kids and also has 10+ years volunteering with our local "Learn to Hunt" program I have enough ground to say this law is foolish. I would also say that the WORST objective judge of a child's ability is...his/her...parents...period.



http://lacrossetribune.com/news/sta...cle_f1a97646-7faf-5571-87f8-55147d1ac133.html

So what is it, WI is one of the worse states if you hunt public grounds?

Im from Iowa but have lived in Wisconsin since 2003...if you can't find public land to hunt in Wisconsin you are either illiterate, lazy, or are afraid of computers. Wisconsin has plenty, PLENTY, of public land hunting opportunities. Iowa is a worthless state for public land hunting.

Or are you illiterate, lazy and afraid of computers? I am utterly confused.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

I think there are a lot of issues that could improve around youth hunting. I was lucky enough to benefit from youth hunts in the late 90's when they were becoming the norm around the country, but so were half a dozen of my cousins and of that group only 1 or 2 of that group hunt today. Unfortunately youth programs have not been successful at creating or retaining new hunters that otherwise wouldn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, regulations around youth hunting should be driven by data about retention.

The problem you get with youth programs are going beyond kids just being trigger pullers and getting them acclimated to the challenges of woodsmenship (and Woodwomenship) and access. The problem with the end of youth programs at age 16 or 18 is that you have kids so busy with activities and likely moving away for college or a job which creates many challenges around hunting even for experienced people. You end up pulling the carpet out from under new hunters. These are all issues to look at helping ease.

I do not think there is much reason in arguing whether 10 or 12 or 14 is the right age for all kids to be hunting, but I really start to wonder whether a 6 year old who just learned to tie his shoe can comprehend the ethical and moral responsibility of killing a deer. That is a huge problem IMO about youth hunting. The question is always can the kid handle a firearm safely and competently and not whether or not they understand the serious nature of taking a life and utilizing the resources that come from the animal. Its only natural to become somewhat numb to the violence within hunting and I think its a dangerous thing for a child to become numb to the act before they realize what is going on.

These discussions shouldn't be about my kids were so competent at X age, but rather how you frame programs for kids in family's that don't hunt or are part of more casual hunting culture. I also think that new adult hunting programs need the same resources as youth hunting programs because they are more successful at retaining lifelong hunters.

 

[maxx]

I think there are a lot of issues that could improve around youth hunting. I was lucky enough to benefit from youth hunts in the late 90's when they were becoming the norm around the country, but so were half a dozen of my cousins and of that group only 1 or 2 of that group hunt today. Unfortunately youth programs have not been successful at creating or retaining new hunters that otherwise wouldn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, regulations around youth hunting should be driven by data about retention.

The problem you get with youth programs are going beyond kids just being trigger pullers and getting them acclimated to the challenges of woodsmenship (and Woodwomenship) and access. The problem with the end of youth programs at age 16 or 18 is that you have kids so busy with activities and likely moving away for college or a job which creates many challenges around hunting even for experienced people. You end up pulling the carpet out from under new hunters. These are all issues to look at helping ease.

I do not think there is much reason in arguing whether 10 or 12 or 14 is the right age for all kids to be hunting, but I really start to wonder whether a 6 year old who just learned to tie his shoe can comprehend the ethical and moral responsibility of killing a deer. That is a huge problem IMO about youth hunting. The question is always can the kid handle a firearm safely and competently and not whether or not they understand the serious nature of taking a life and utilizing the resources that come from the animal. Its only natural to become somewhat numb to the violence within hunting and I think its a dangerous thing for a child to become numb to the act before they realize what is going on.

These discussions shouldn't be about my kids were so competent at X age, but rather how you frame programs for kids in family's that don't hunt or are part of more casual hunting culture. I also think that new adult hunting programs need the same resources as youth hunting programs because they are more successful at retaining lifelong hunters.

Yes and no on this. It was a big concern of mine the first year I took my oldest hunting. I wondered if he fully understood what he was doing and if he was truly ok with it. It worked out.

The only point I would like to make is you really don't hear the same thing being talked about with farm kids. It is just a part of life because they have always been around it. Hell hunting to me is easier to understand than raising a 4H cattle, showing it at the State fair and then coming home and butchering the dam thing. That to me is a weird but I didn't grow up that way. Kind of the same thing with sex. They understand it at a much earlier age than most kids because they are just around it all the time.

We as adults don't give kids enough credit sometimes when it comes to real world bigger than life issues. I think it has gotten worse with life moving more urban.

 

[fwagner]

So what is it, WI is one of the worse states if you hunt public grounds?



Or are you illiterate, lazy and afraid of computers? I am utterly confused.

Let me slow this down for you as you seem to be constantly confused....

1. Scott Walker is anti public land, he has openly said this and his action confirm those views as he has sold thousands of acres of public land. You can even go on the DNR website and view the land they are trying to sell. On top of that he appoints unqualified people to head up the DNR, who know nothing of what the outdoor industry provides to the state.

2. I am the one who pointed out that Wisconsin has plenty of (as of now) public land opportunities so as far as your attempt to use my comment against me I am at a loss....maybe you need a dictionary or a better grasp of reading understanding.

3. I don't oppose the lowering of the age but I do oppose the mentor carrying a gun. The excuse that you need a back up rifle is nothing less then ridiculous. Nobody on this forum carries a gun in their hand and a gun slung on their shoulder while hunting so why would you teach a kid that way, it's a bad practice and a quality mentor would never do it.

4. Any other questions?

 

[fwagner]

I think there are a lot of issues that could improve around youth hunting. I was lucky enough to benefit from youth hunts in the late 90's when they were becoming the norm around the country, but so were half a dozen of my cousins and of that group only 1 or 2 of that group hunt today. Unfortunately youth programs have not been successful at creating or retaining new hunters that otherwise wouldn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, regulations around youth hunting should be driven by data about retention.

The problem you get with youth programs are going beyond kids just being trigger pullers and getting them acclimated to the challenges of woodsmenship (and Woodwomenship) and access. The problem with the end of youth programs at age 16 or 18 is that you have kids so busy with activities and likely moving away for college or a job which creates many challenges around hunting even for experienced people. You end up pulling the carpet out from under new hunters. These are all issues to look at helping ease.

I do not think there is much reason in arguing whether 10 or 12 or 14 is the right age for all kids to be hunting, but I really start to wonder whether a 6 year old who just learned to tie his shoe can comprehend the ethical and moral responsibility of killing a deer. That is a huge problem IMO about youth hunting. The question is always can the kid handle a firearm safely and competently and not whether or not they understand the serious nature of taking a life and utilizing the resources that come from the animal. Its only natural to become somewhat numb to the violence within hunting and I think its a dangerous thing for a child to become numb to the act before they realize what is going on.

These discussions shouldn't be about my kids were so competent at X age, but rather how you frame programs for kids in family's that don't hunt or are part of more casual hunting culture. I also think that new adult hunting programs need the same resources as youth hunting programs because they are more successful at retaining lifelong hunters.

Great post....honestly, a lot of good things in here. I think we all need to remember that kids from the ages of high school through college are super busy and sometimes retention isn't a failure of the program or lack of opportunity it's just that some people don't have the desire to go hunting. It really is that simple. Really like what you said about mentoring programs for adults. I think that's a great place to increase numbers of hunters!

 

[maxx]

Let me slow this down for you as you seem to be constantly confused....

1. Scott Walker is anti public land, he has openly said this and his action confirm those views as he has sold thousands of acres of public land. You can even go on the DNR website and view the land they are trying to sell. On top of that he appoints unqualified people to head up the DNR, who know nothing of what the outdoor industry provides to the state. Sure but how much difference has it made so far? WI has a decent amount of public land but you act like it is the same as Alaska, simply not.

2. I am the one who pointed out that Wisconsin has plenty of (as of now) public land opportunities so as far as your attempt to use my comment against me I am at a loss....maybe you need a dictionary or a better grasp of reading understanding. Ya it wasn't hard when you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

3. I don't oppose the lowering of the age but I do oppose the mentor carrying a gun. The excuse that you need a back up rifle is nothing less then ridiculous. Nobody on this forum carries a gun in their hand and a gun slung on their shoulder while hunting so why would you teach a kid that way, it's a bad practice and a quality mentor would never do it. You have said a few times you appose both. I have said a few times I cant take or leave the mentor carrying another gun. I have had my kids out hunting a lot and I think I only carried an extra gun a time or two. Depends on the type of hunting I am doing. I cant tell you the last time I went on a waterfowl hunt with my boat that I didn't have an extra gun with me. I take two of everything when I travel out of state.

4. Any other questions?

Nope.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I can't understand what the big hangup is with the mentor having a gun! If they know what in the heck they are doing to be a mentor in the first place (I'm sure a certain percentage don't, but that can't be fixed), what is the problem with them properly handling their gun because it would be a plus for the kid to see. Are you worried that the adult is going to shoot the game for the kid or what because if the mentor is properly trained it shouldn't be a safety issue? Cripes, when I was 5 and started hunting with my Dad I had an unloaded gun the first year or two and then a loaded one from then on and he always had his shotgun when I was out with him right from the start.

 

[Zach]

Let me slow this down for you as you seem to be constantly confused....

1. Scott Walker is anti public land, he has openly said this and his action confirm those views as he has sold thousands of acres of public land. You can even go on the DNR website and view the land they are trying to sell. On top of that he appoints unqualified people to head up the DNR, who know nothing of what the outdoor industry provides to the state.

2. I am the one who pointed out that Wisconsin has plenty of (as of now) public land opportunities so as far as your attempt to use my comment against me I am at a loss....maybe you need a dictionary or a better grasp of reading understanding.

3. I don't oppose the lowering of the age but I do oppose the mentor carrying a gun. The excuse that you need a back up rifle is nothing less then ridiculous. Nobody on this forum carries a gun in their hand and a gun slung on their shoulder while hunting so why would you teach a kid that way, it's a bad practice and a quality mentor would never do it.

4. Any other questions?

Is this how you mentor?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Is this how you mentor?

Good one Zach!