Wildfire management LTTE

[Irrelevant]

Also, because it's relevant, apparently DTJ came to a similar but more idiotic conclusion. All be it, it's unfunded - apparently Iran is more important, but the modernization part sounds good.

Empowering Commonsense Wildfire Prevention and Response

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered:Section 1. Purpose. The

www.whitehouse.gov

I don't know if it matters, but I like removing any EPA hurdles to prescribed fires.

 

[COEngineer]

I don't know if it matters, but I like removing any EPA hurdles to prescribed fires.

You realize prescribed fires also create smoke, right?

 

[Irrelevant]

You realize prescribed fires also create smoke, right?

How many prescribed fires have you had to tolerate >150 aqi? We have prescribed fires every year and never anywhere near summer levels

 

[Bonasababy]

I simply don't believe that data.
View attachment 415577
the FS isn't even attempting IA on these small starts, everyone is already committed to the big ones that didn't put out during the IA. Thankfully everything west of the crest has seen rain, and will see more rain.

The DNR might do better, and I know our local FD's are doing a helluva lot better. Maybe that's funding. Maybe access. Maybe strategy. Like a combination.

Thats a helluva lot of fire at the same time!

Hard to ask the best agency around to handle all that...esp. with the feds staff cut way back.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Wife’s doctorate is forest science. She worked at the LaGrande research lab for 35 years. Spent a lot of time reviewing fire response as well as fighting fires early in her career. We’ve been following along and there are a couple of things not being talked about. While it was mentioned we learned to do a real good job of putting fires out when they got started. There are fire lookouts in Oregon that pre date WW11 as well as towers that have been installed near where folks rigged small tree houses as the original fire lookouts and would ride horses to get help or handle it themselves. That suppression dramatically changed the landscape even with logging well in excess of sustained yield up into the 70s and 80s. Most studies show there are more stems per acre now than any time in history. That’s fuel. Much of the west was on a 25 year average burn cycle, think controlled burn on a macro scale. That cycle doesn’t occur now. You mentioned correctly that parts of Eastern Oregon and Washington were every bit as hot and dry as they are now in the early 50s. 70 some years ago, and prior you could ride a horse through the lodge pole near East and Paulina likes or up around Crane Prarie. You couldn’t do it now.
I’m afraid it will get worse before getting better.

 

[mtmuley]

Arm chair fire fighting on Hunttalk. mtmuley

 

[Redmt]

I've been fighting fires as a civilian dozer operator in our local area, about 150-200 sq miles, for over 40 years. You learn fire behavior for the area you are familiar with. The smartest thing that professional firefighters do is to ask the locals for advice. Sometimes they listen and sometimes they don't.

 

[quarterhorse]

It's complicated. Very complicated.

The person fighting the fire with the pulaski is paid about $20/hour. There isn't enough of them. There isn't the funding for enough of them. College kids aren't rushing into the flames for a $20/hr summer job.

Backcountry vs. threatening homes and private land get treated differently.

As said above most are put out on IA. Believe it or not.

I've seen over 100 lightning starts from a single storm. Nobody has the resources to put all of them out when conditions are bad. Something is getting away.

Helicopters and airplanes are expensive. Not enought of them either.

I've seen the USFS leave backcountry fires to help out on other fires that that threaten private land/homes.

VFD's do alot of IA closer to town. Not enough of those guys either. You should join.

In August there is not enough resources to go around.

Talk to some of your local fire managers and educate yourself. Then hit up your politicians to help with solutions.

If it was easy the problem would have been solved long ago.

 

[SAJ-99]

Then hit up your politicians to help with solutions.

What are the solutions? Everything seems to involve more $ and people are not in favor of higher taxes.

 

[Redmt]

What are the solutions? Everything seems to involve more $ and people are not in favor of higher taxes.

It's not higher taxes needed, it's the tax distribution that is the problem. Get the politicians that vote for more money for sweetheart projects. Stop the funding for illegals. Open up contracts for government projects instead of the "approved" good ole boys. The list goes on and on and on,,,,,,

 

[COEngineer]

What are the solutions? Everything seems to involve more $ and people are not in favor of higher taxes.

In my mind it's not so much a money issue as a policy issue. We need more prescribed burning, but 'the public' doesn't want any smoke or any chance of an escape, so it's not done nearly as much as it needs to be. If we spend the money/funding on prescribed fires that we do fighting mega fires, we might get ahead some day, but instead we keep digging the hole deeper (stopping every fire while fuels accumulate, forests become more decadent, and wildfires more explosive).

 

[SAJ-99]

In my mind it's not so much a money issue as a policy issue. We need more prescribed burning, but 'the public' doesn't want any smoke or any chance of an escape, so it's not done nearly as much as it needs to be. If we spend the money/funding on prescribed fires that we do fighting mega fires, we might get ahead some day, but instead we keep digging the hole deeper (stopping every fire while fuels accumulate, forests become more decadent, and wildfires more explosive).

Agree, although Rx burns aren't cheap either. I'm not sure how you make the case that spending more on preemptive measures saves money later.

 

[Redmt]

Agree, although Rx burns aren't cheap either. I'm not sure how you make the case that spending more on preemptive measures saves money later.

I respectfully ask, have you been through a wildfire? Fought a wildfire? Fought a wildfire that you were in the middle of?
Six years ago today we were in the middle of the 3rd largest wildfire in California history. I've fought many wildfires but when it's you you'll have a whole different outlook. We lost thousands of trees and countless animals. It has changed the entire landscape and not for the good. I'll have taken 350+ 100 acre fires over 1 376,000 acres fire.
Here's a picture from today. The burnt trees are not very pretty.

 

[SAJ-99]

I respectfully ask, have you been through a wildfire? Fought a wildfire? Fought a wildfire that you were in the middle of?
Six years ago today we were in the middle of the 3rd largest wildfire in California history. I've fought many wildfires but when it's you you'll have a whole different outlook. We lost thousands of trees and countless animals. It has changed the entire landscape and not for the good. I'll have taken 350+ 100 acre fires over 1 376,000 acres fire.
Here's a picture from today. The burnt trees are not very pretty.
View attachment 415829

Yes. I understand. What is your point?

 

[Redmt]

Sorry you missed the point. The point you made about costs of prescribed burns vs. wildfire. There's no comparison in costs. Homes are destroyed, lived are changed forever. People die.

 

[El Jason]

Agree, although Rx burns aren't cheap either. I'm not sure how you make the case that spending more on preemptive measures saves money later.

Pretty sure it would be far cheaper to aggressively spend money on fire mitigation than it would be to pay for fire suppression and restoration.

 

[kwyeewyk]

Agree, although Rx burns aren't cheap either. I'm not sure how you make the case that spending more on preemptive measures saves money later.

I haven't seen any recent numbers but 10 or 15 years ago there was a lot of talk about how much more cost effective prevention was vs suppression, but the suppression costs end up eating the prevention budget, and I think that problem has gotten worse.

 

[Nameless Range]

Pretty sure it would be far cheaper to aggressively spend money on fire mitigation than it would be to pay for fire suppression and restoration.

A study on just that was published earlier this year and their findings were that it would have an ROI, but would require a lot of change in management, litigation, funding allocations, etc.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aea6463

 

[Irrelevant]

I've given up on the letter. 3 drafts and I still come across as an out of touch asshole.

I guess I'll wait for the class action lung cancer suit

 

[COEngineer]

I guess I'll wait for the class action lung cancer suit

You're going to sue the forest for burning?