Whose Land Is it

Muledeer4me

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A new defense against the feds
By Henry Lamb

"For more than a decade, the federal government has found new ways to control the use of land, both private and public. So-called "public" land is supposed to be for the use of the public. For most of the last century, the principle of "multiple use" guided the land use policies on land owned by the federal government.

The Wilderness Act of 1964 set aside nine million acres of land to be forever held as wilderness, so "posterity could see what our founders had to conquer," according to statements made by politicians at the time. The remaining federal estate, aside from national parks and wildlife areas, was to be used in way that provided benefits to the public from mining, logging, grazing, and other uses.

With the rise of the modern environmental movement, which was hijacked by a leadership drenched in "deep ecology," the concept of "multiple use" was replaced by the concept of "no use" by humans.

Dozens of well-planned strategies have been implemented to drive people off the land with a long-term plan to restore at least half the land area of the United States to pristine wilderness, as it was before Columbus sailed the ocean blue. The Wildlands Project, though denied by most federal agencies, has become the policy blueprint for land use policy.

The Endangered Species Act has been a vital weapon in the arsenal of the no-use advocates. By designating a bug or a plant as "endangered," the federal government is able to dictate the activities that can, and cannot occur on "public" land.

Reintroduction of the wolf is, perhaps, the most sinister of the strategies used to rid rural areas of people. The ravenous beasts slaughter cattle and sheep, as well as elk, deer, and other game. And wolves tend to multiply with enthusiasm.

Despite the objections of the land owners, ranchers, hunters, and other resource users, the wilderness advocates have prevailed. Wolves are, indeed, multiplying across the west, and are wreaking havoc among the people who must contend with their insatiable appetites.

New Mexico is one of at least three states that is attempting a new strategy to protect its citizens from the federal government's insistence on returning the nation to pre-Columbian wilderness.

State Representative Daniel R. Foley has introduced HB 267, a modest bill that may be monumental in the struggle for saving the land for use by humans. The bill takes a new approach by declaring the state's authority to manage its own wildlife.

Historically, states have had the authority to regulate every aspect of hunting wildlife within the state. This bill builds upon that authority, and declares that the state, alone, will regulate the species within the state. Section B declares:

B. For the purposes of mitigating detrimental impacts to New Mexico from the introduction of a wildlife species, including endangered species, that have been or may be introduced, planted or propagated in the state by a person, including a federal agency, the commission shall:

(1) adopt rules to prohibit the introduction, reintroduction, propagation or management of a wildlife species into New Mexico by a person, including a federal agency, other than the department of game and fish;

(2) seek reimbursement or compensation for any damages to New Mexico wildlife or wildlife habitat caused by a species, including an endangered species, introduced into New Mexico pursuant to federal mandate or programs;

(3) except for damages eligible for compensation from the big game depredation damage fund, assist a landowner, lessee or outfitter, whose property or livelihood is being damaged by an endangered species introduced into New Mexico by a federal agency, to obtain reimbursement or compensation from the federal government; and

(4) remove the species introduced into New Mexico by the federal government.

C. The state game commission shall notify all:

(1) federal agencies, whose duties directly affect wildlife, public lands or the environment, that New Mexico has sole jurisdiction over all wildlife in the state and will exercise exclusive management;

(2) federal agencies that New Mexico prohibits officers or employees of the federal government from managing wildlife or from interfering with the department of game and fish; and

(3) county sheriffs that all wildlife violations are to be investigated by the department of game and fish and New Mexico law enforcement personnel and not federal agencies.

This bold adventure in the exercise of the Tenth Amendment will not be well received in Washington, nor in the Governor's mansion, since Bill Richardson moved in. Nevertheless, it is a valid approach to retaining the state's right to exercise authority not granted to the federal government by the U.S. Constitution, and therfore, retained by the state.

Both Montana and Wyoming are considering a similar bill. If enough states rise up and exert their Tenth Amendment right, Washington will have to listen. Ultimately, this issue will likely be settled by the Supreme Court, where it will be fascinating to see whether or not the Tenth Amendment means what it says.

Unless there are enough legislators with backbone sufficient to challenge the feds, the case will never get to the Supremes, and mere humans will continue to be pushed aside for the benefit of wolves, weeds, and waterbugs. "
 
Henry Lamb should actually read the Multiple Use Sustained yield act before he makes wild claims like this, "The remaining federal estate, aside from national parks and wildlife areas, was to be used in way that provided benefits to the public from mining, logging, grazing, and other uses."

Under section 4(a) of the original bill it states:

"Multiple use means the management of all the various renewable surface resources of the combination that will best meet the needs of the American People...WITHOUT IMPAIRMENT OF THE PRODUCTIVITY OF THE LAND, with consideration being given to the relative values of the various resources, and NOT NECESSARILY the combination of uses that will give the greatest dollar return or the greatest unit output."

That means choosing NOT TO manage public lands is totally acceptable if the AMERICAN PEOPLE, aka the OWNERS of the public domain, deem that as the greatest RELATIVE VALUE.

Henry Lamb obviously does not understand the MUSY act. No where in that act does it state that the public domain HAS to be managed for logging, mining, or grazing, it just isnt in there. And further if that is allowed it has to be done in a way that there is no IMPAIRMENT OF THE PRODUCTIVITY of the land.

Since this is America, Henry Lamb, has the right to say and believe anything he wants, but he's wrong about his multiple use statements, plain and simple.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-21-2003 10:11: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
 
HAHA, that bill doesnt have a chance.

Check out this key phrase from your link Ten, "The committee took no action on the bill."

In other words, its dead on arrival.
 
I neither claimed to support or detract that issue. I merely thought it belonged in the same discussion as the other article. Both states seem to be relying on each other for legislative presidence.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Check out this key phrase from your link Ten, "The committee took no action on the bill." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You make it sound like I supported the issue. Didn't some of you guys do that with mike on another article link?
 
Ten, I was unaware I stated anywhere that you supported it? Did I miss that part?

I'm saying its ridiculous and wont get out of committe.
 
I apoligize for any misunderstandings.
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I merely thought the two article would belong in the same discussion.

Isn't this rehashing the same legislative issue/authority that ID, MT, & WY tried with the wolves during reintroduction?
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WOW! Henry sure is wrong about this...

"Despite the objections of the land owners, ranchers, hunters, and other resource users, the wilderness advocates have prevailed. Wolves are, indeed, multiplying across the west, and are wreaking havoc among the people who must contend with their insatiable appetites."

Really? How does he know the people who supported wolf reintro are "wilderness advocates"? He sure does make an awful lot of statements with no facts to back up his claims.

"Despite the objections of landowners, ranchers, etc. etc."

Henry lies again. The majority of comments were in favor of wolf reintroduction, I guess he left that part out too. I guess ranchers, landowners, and hunters should be the only ones who have any input into United States issues.

What a fine piece of well documented and cited journalism that is. I wonder if he recieved his degree from the University of Fantasy land?
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<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-21-2003 15:38: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
 
Henry and Sheriff Michael Cook (remember the "Wolves and Eco-Terrorists" article?
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/01/22/sheriff.htm ) would make a terrific pair to run in the next presidential election!
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Here's some more from Henry!
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"Environmentalists' pressure to ban asbestos may have contributed to the Challenger disaster, and to the collapse of the World Trade Center. The environmentalist-inspired ban on Freon may have also contributed to the Columbia disaster.

Environmental organizations have become a legion of leeches, attached to every part of the body politic which is our national sovereignty.

Congress has the power to pluck these leeches from our national body....."

This guy is GREAT!!!
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Have a look at our hero!
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http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/archives.asp?AUTHOR_ID=126&PAGE=10

Can you believe people actually read that kinda stuff!!!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-21-2003 23:20: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
Ya gotta love this guy Henry!! Here's some more about him:
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Wingnuts in Sheep's Clothing

"Meet the kooks and corporations behind the astroturf group called ECO.

by Keith Hammond

December 4, 1997

-- the brown opposition is well-funded and sneaky, with fake populist tactics that make it hard to spot the wolf in sheep's clothing...... Starting with Henry Lamb's perversely named Environmental Conservation Organization, we trace here the interlocking directorates -- and corporate sponsors -- of some of the extremist groups who'll give up their carbon-spewing smokestack when you pry it out of their cold, dead hands:"

http://www.motherjones.com/news_wire/gw_chart.html

Henry's probably a Life Member of The Blue Ribbon Coalition!!
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I wanna thank HT SI from the bottom of my heart for bring us Sheriff Mike Cook and Henry Lamb!!
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Here's where to find more musings by Henry and his buddies!
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http://www.crowley-offroad.com/environmental_issues.htm

"Henry Lamb compares the FBI's agressive action against Christians and advocates of national sovereignty in the Megiddo Report to the absence of action against known eco-terrorists." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go Gettum, Henry!! This land is our land!!
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<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-21-2003 23:48: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
Buzz===correct me if I wrong or too simplistic.... The BLM is managing our land in trust, much the same why Indian land that is not allotted is managed by the BIA. Your land but not is the same way privately owned is yours.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lostagain:
Buzz===correct me if I wrong or too simplistic.... The BLM is managing our land in trust, much the same why Indian land that is not allotted is managed by the BIA. Your land but not is the same way privately owned is yours.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am confused by what you mean LA. Could you go slower for me?
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Thru treaties etc the land inside a rez belongs to that tribe. Each member got an allottment. The rest of the land, that didn't get sold out to nonmembers by the feds, is held in trust by the tribe. The BIA controls and administors that trust. All the income from those lands goes to the BIA, not the tribe, not to the individual members. The BIA is to then divide out those moneys and distrib to the rightful owners in the percentages of 1) income from their allottment, 2) by percentage of members.

BLM is same sort of set up, they are to manage the land for us and we wish to reinvest our dividends instead of cashing out.
 
I would again argue, if they are managing it for us, they arent doing a very good job.

I think its ridiculous to only pay $1.35 for an AUM in 2003, the same price paid since the 70's, and on top of that LOSE money for the taxpayer and subsidize ranchers! WOW! Funny that the tribes usually show a profit and a dividend is PAID out to the tribal members...of course they dont lease their lands at the rate of $1.35 an AUM either.

I dont think you can feed a hamster for a buck thirty five a month...
 
Do you see the cost of the AUM getting to the standard market price on private lands in the near future Buzz?

If not what do you think will actually cause it to increase to the correct price?

Truthfully I do not see it happening at this time. The current administration will not allow that to happen. But I am unversed in these matters excpet for what I read here online.
 
BIA and BLM are both in the same Dept of INT. Overall they do a junk job of accounting and management. How else do you explain the $700+million the BIA can't account for that is owed out. The BLM, According to many, is so junky that they give away timber, give away grazing, give away nearly everything they touch,,,,, why do we still have them in managing our stuff?

OMG, the only thing seperating some of you and the black helicoptor seers is you folks haven't come to the conclusion that the gov't isn't doing a good job of taking care of our trust.
 
what some people dont understand about these leases is the 1.35 aun is for lease only .we have to put money in to fences,wells,roads at are own expence. they say it is part of of are mantance. they do not put any money to do any of these.that is why so many people are saleing thery alotments.because we have to wait sometimes 5 or 6 years to get a EA on each alotment.so when you see no water or fences in good shape it is because we can not get thouth there EA or they just dont want us on gov. land .
 
Gastro Gnome - Eat Better Wherever

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