What to do

[IAhawks84]

Hey everyone,
Had some seriously bad news come in tonight. I normally go out DIY hunting like pretty much everyone on this forum, but this year I decided to try a guided elk hunt. Yes it's expensive, I think we all know that but it's something I've wanted to try. I started the process of this last year, shortly after returning from another hunt.
I was supposed to start driving Thursday heading to Big Timber, MT. Tonight I get a call that my hunt is canceled. The owner is in Alaska, his guides (which I was under the impression he'd be guiding) backed out on him. They offered to have me come in October to rifle hunt. This is a little irritating as I prefer archery, as I booked.
I do not want to name this outfitter as I'd like to see how this all plays out before doing that, and there are also sites for that sort of thing.
My question is, what would you all do in my shoes? I do not want to burn the tag, but as I've been under the impression I was going to be guided, I have not scouted this area what so ever. I am packed, but not to have my own camp for a week. I have work scheduled for specific days off. I have jobs scheduled and cannot cancel on them as that is not how I handle my customers.
Another consideration, I've never solo hunted in the mountains, especially somewhere I've never actually been.
Considering the news tonight, I'm feeling a little bit down about the whole situation and every option feels like I'm pissing in the wind. Just looking for some outside opinion that may be a little more clear minded than I am right now.

 

[BuzzH]

Get your money back from the outfitter...was that also an option?

 

[Bullshot]

Man that sucks! But I know what I would do… I’d be going hunting! Throw together whatever additional gear you can, stop on the way to pick up a few other items if you need them. Pack two big coolers, some sharp knives, and a positive attitude. Pick a spot to hunt that you can truck camp from, do as much quick research as you can in a day and then get after it. Helluva vacation at the very least.

 

[Beignet]

I’d try and get your money back for sure. From what I hear staffing shortages have hit that industry as well. What’s to say he’d have guides or his act together by October?

Spend some of that refund on a new tent and come give it a go since you’re packed, burned the PTO, and have a tag in hand?

 

[Werty]

If you can swing it, come for archery. If you don't connect, come back for rifle.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Get your money back , out the outfitter, go hunting. What does the contract say about THEM cancelling the hunt? Another reason I would never go with an outfitter...too many things in their favor every time I turn around and read stuff about outfitters.

 

[IAhawks84]

They're supposedly refunding the money. Until I have the cash back I do not have a lot of faith unfortunately. I have a few phone calls to make tomorrow. The outfitter purchased my tag, not sure if I can hunt without an outfitter with this tag.

Luckily if I can go DIY, as I stated above that is my usual route. I've pretty much got everything I need, it's just not all together. I also do not have food frozen, packed, etc.

Tomorrow will tell a lot. If I can, I'll probably give it go. Worse case, I'll go blind and hit the north facing slopes.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

They're supposedly refunding the money. Until I have the cash back I do not have a lot of faith unfortunately. I have a few phone calls to make tomorrow. The outfitter purchased my tag, not sure if I can hunt without an outfitter with this tag.

Luckily if I can go DIY, as I stated above that is my usual route. I've pretty much got everything I need, it's just not all together. I also do not have food frozen, packed, etc.

Tomorrow will tell a lot. If I can, I'll probably give it go. Worse case, I'll go blind and hit the north facing slopes.

Your first question is CAN you hunt with the tag without an outfitter and my guess is no.

If your outfitter is bailing on you, you’re probably stuck with either rifle hunting or not hunting at all.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

check out your tag issues and go diy if you can,,them cancelling the bow portion as planned should be a breach of contract and full outfitter refund,,tag should be through montana game and fish i would think,,unless it is a landowner tag??good luck

 

[IAhawks84]

The tag is not a land owner tag. I am talking to another outfitter, very slim odds of him fitting me in. He believes my tag is not valid without an outfitter, which is probably true but I will call regardless. He also gave me a couple of places to call to report this to.

Talk about a kick in the nuts.

 

[Scott85]

Sorry to hear about this.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Try giving Montana FWP a call. They might have some suggestions about how to use that tag in this situation. Must not be much of an operation if it only has one owner/guide. I wonder if he was even a legitimate outfitter. Possibly one of those ranchers who can operate as an outfitter without a license. And yes, that is legal ... or it was the last time I checked. They weren't required to have a license anyway.

I only have two experiences with outfitters (actually four but three were with the same one). I filled a vacancy at the last minute for a party hunting geese in Saskatchewan. That outfitter was marginal. Mostly dropped us off after setting up decoys and left. Miserable hunting in terrible cold weather. Not his fault. We were fed at a community hall, not a lodge. We stayed in a small house with detached garage where birds were cleaned (we did that too). Outfitter lived elsewhere. The next year I didn't go (I shoot enough geese here) and those guys had a horrible experience.

I have been to Africa three times with the same outfitter. Great people. Last year's trip had been booked over from 2020 due to COVID. I only gave them $500 deposit in 2020 and willing to let them have it when I had to cancel, knowing they were in trouble. Brian instead somehow fit me in for 2021. Then clients started bailing on him. I climbed mountains to get over there last year because I knew they were hurting. I even upped my booking to very expensive Cape buffalo and still he never asked for more deposit! For this year's booking he never asked for ANY deposit! This spring I wired him $2K anyway when the US$ exchange rate was good. Wish to hell I'd sent him a lot more! It went in the toilet while I was there. He was north in Zimbabwe with a client when I had to settle up the night before coming home. My PH was taking care of the bill. Brian texted him trophy fee discounts on pretty much every animal. Then: "Ontario sent me a deposit. Don't remember what it was. Whatever he tells you." Really? I smiled. "Ten grand. Yeah, that was it." PH proceeded to write it on the invoice. No, no. Just kidding. I pulled the wire receipt out of my folder. That's the kind of people they are.

 

[IAhawks84]

He's a legitimate operation as I spoke with another hunter who has hunted with him. It is a small operation, which I thought would be nice. I should have a lot more answers today. I did not find any of this out until about 8:30 last night.
Assuming I cannot hunt with my tag without an outfitter, I guess I'd try to go in October. I'm just not sure how to protect myself against something like this again? For being my first time trying something that I could have seen myself doing again once in a while, it sure does kind of leave a bitter taste.

 

[OntarioHunter]

He's a legitimate operation as I spoke with another hunter who has hunted with him. It is a small operation, which I thought would be nice. I should have a lot more answers today. I did not find any of this out until about 8:30 last night.
Assuming I cannot hunt with my tag without an outfitter, I guess I'd try to go in October. I'm just not sure how to protect myself against something like this again? For being my first time trying something that I could have seen myself doing again once in a while, it sure does kind of leave a bitter taste.

Well, for good reasons I would be understanding if an outfitter had to cancel. Illness, death in the family, that sort of thing. But this guy chooses to shit on a client so he can go play in Alaska? Poor way to do business. His reputation is either very secure (i.e. game is tied up on his piece of property) or he has another source of income (the ranch) and doesn't give a shit about his outfitting hobby.

Will you be hunting public land or his place? Bull tag or either sex? Where will you be hunting? Mountains or plains? I formerly taught HS not far from Big Timber so am somewhat familiar with the area. That was so long ago and that area has become so overrun with transplants that I probably wouldn't know your outfitter. I did know one outfitter/rancher about half way to Reed Point. He was a fine fella. Actually shot a very fine whitetail buck on his place.

 

[IAhawks84]

Well it has been a crazy 24 hrs. Luckily there are some pretty good folks in Montana. Montana has been a state that I have wanted to hunt for some time, and today everyone from all of the outfitters to the people at FWP were absolutely top notch.
The morning started kind of still shocked at what transpired last night. I started reaching out to other guides and everyone has been pretty booked. After talking to numerous people I was recommended to an outfitter in the Little Belts.
I was not really getting anywhere with the outfitter that canceled. I spoke with the outfitter and guide association and they recommended filing a report. The outfitter did end up messaging me via inreach. He said he'll refund me or let me reschedule. I honestly probably would have just rescheduled and somehow made that work had there been a little more communication along the line.
With tag that I have, I must be accompanied by a guide. I was searching all over the basemap last night, but we're not going to be going that route.
My excitement is renewed again after last night. Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[NDMuley]

So do you get to go on your trip? If so I hope you have a great time and see tons of elk.

 

[88man]

I guess its safe to assume even outfitters are having staffing issues in the current labor environment.

 

[Pucky Freak]

If I paid for a guided hunt I’d sure as hell want what I’d paid for. I’d be hard-pressed to settle for a different hunt that I was less interested in at such a high cost.

 

[IAhawks84]

Yes I am scheduled with a new outfitter. They came highly recommended. I leave in 2 weeks, still an archery hunt. I'll keep everyone posted, even though this is not really a "guided" site.
Like I had said before, one good thing to come of this, I have spoken with some very good people in Montana and will definitely keep them in mind for possible future hunts or recommendations.

 

[hank4elk]

I am impressed with outfitters...NOT.