Western Sportsmans Alliance?

[tjones]

Ask any batch of hunters when they last went to an FWP meeting or commented on sportsmen legislation then ask them when the last time they griped about FWP or sportsmen legislation on a forum or FB and you will get completely different answers.

Buzz hit it on post #10

 

[npaden]

So as a nonresident hunter the best I can do is contribute and or volunteer for species specific conservation groups and hope for the best on not getting screwed too bad by the residents of the states where that money ends up going?

 

[Pinecricker]

Very thought provoking topic. I've been involved with a few regional sportsmen's organizations, and it was one of the most frustrating experiences ever. Not only is it hard to get hunters to come to an agreement an any particular issue, its even harder to get them to take action. Then, even if you do manage to get every one marching in the same direction, policy makers may still completely ignore you (in my experience they are big on talk and short on action).

The idea of a pan-Western organization is interesting, but I would ask, what are the top five issues such an organization would focus on?

The biggest threats that I personally see in my state:

1. Our elk season keeps getting shorter and shorter. The days of drawing for elk tags or at least quotas are very near. It just plain sucks.

2. They tell us participation is down, but in my local area there is more hunting pressure every year. The quality of the experience is in decline - at least based on my personal values.

3. At some point we need to protect winter habitat for elk and deer. It is disappearing fast, but its an issue no one likes to talk about or even to acknowledge.

4. Depending what sources you look at, numbers of hunters are either flat or declining, but our Fish and Game Departments keep spending money at an increasing rate. There is going to be a funding problem at some point in time. I don't want to see any funding come from non-hunting or fishing sources, but I don't want to pay more to hunt either. There is a lot of waste in our game departments, but its very hard to eliminate.

5. With the way our large urban centers, full of anti-hunting / anti-gun / animal rights types keep growing, there will undoubtedly be threats to our access to public lands. Even many management agencies like the Forest Service and BLM, and even fish and game departments are attracting more tree-hugging / vegan type employees.

 

[jryoung]

4. Why wouldn't you want money coming from other sources instead of footing the bill? I'd love it if other users of refuges, wildlife watchers etc decided to chip in.

5. How are the anti-hunting anti-gun types closing out access? In general they are much more for conservation of landscapes.

 

[Pinecricker]

4. Why wouldn't you want money coming from other sources instead of footing the bill? I'd love it if other users of refuges, wildlife watchers etc decided to chip in.

5. How are the anti-hunting anti-gun types closing out access? In general they are much more for conservation of landscapes.

The minute we get non-hunters providing funding, then we'll end up with them on our Fish and Game Commissions. Having them making policy decisions on hunting and wildlife management would be the absolute worst cases scenario. Look no further than Washington state if you want to see where it leads.

At least in my state the anti-hunting groups are generally the same ones lobbying for road closures, travel restrictions, etc. They will think up any way possible to impede hunting. Whether its by locking us out of public lands, trying to eliminate lead ammunition, suing to stop wolf management, etc. They are an all around threat, and ironically, their actions are actually counter productive to conservation.

 

[BuzzH]

So as a nonresident hunter the best I can do is contribute and or volunteer for species specific conservation groups and hope for the best on not getting screwed too bad by the residents of the states where that money ends up going?

Yep, if you think that's the best you can do, then it most certainly is.:W::W::W:

 

[jryoung]

I live in CA I know plenty about non-hunters on the commission, that said I'd prefer to have more funding.

You seem to conradict yourself as in once sentance you say your areas are overcrowded and too much hunting pressure, but yet don't want road closures/travel restrictions. The best way to solve pressure issues is make an area accessable by foot or hoof as opposed to gas.

npaden I hear you, in many respects it sucks. The best voice of a NR, scratch that, the loudest voice for a NR are the outfitters, which don't do much for the self guided. I don't know what the answer is. Public land, self guided hunters are the bedrock of hunting in the west. i'd love a little more love from various states, but I also get the reason why states protect their residents. i wish there was a way participation in F&G efforts could carry some extra weight for tag drawings, but how do you weigh that. In CA as a hunter ed instructor I get into a special drawing. Something along those lines would be cool to see if more guys would get involved.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Non-consumptive users already help fund wildlife management through excise taxes and funds appropriated from revenues other than license sales.

If wildlife is a public trust, owned by the citizens of the state, then shouldn't all citizens have a role in funding and managing? I'm less worried about "anti-hunters" than I am about politicians and hacks who want to sell my wildlife to the highest bidder.

 

[have gun will travel]

Be carefull what you wish for.... If you think there is bickering now just add more opinions into the mix! You don't think PETA would love to have a seat at the table. Think of the political grid lock then. One constant is change, things change every day good or bad. Think of the changes we might see if you invite others to the table. Because there not just going to hand over money without wanting a say of where there money is going.

If the greenies make money off of lawsuits against our government pushing there agenda why aren't our organizations doing the same. Fight fire with fire. It's messy and I don't like it, but we can't just sit bye with out a fight. Heck every time a timber permit is submitted someone files a lawsuit the next day. I thought the whole point of national Forrest was to regulate the harvest of timber. To ensure we managed healthy forests for future generations.

 

[npaden]

Yep, if you think that's the best you can do, then it most certainly is.:W::W::W:

BuzzH, if you have the answer then I'm all ears, that's why I started this thread.

Instead of sarcasm, please enlighten us.

You're saying all I need to do is take some vacation time and go to a meeting or two in states that I can't vote and everything will be solved?

 

[npaden]

Seems to me that funding an organization that can send someone to those same meetings and can say "I represent X,XXX or XX,XXX number of sportspeople and here is their opinion on the subject would go alot farther and have a lot better chance of success than a couple guys from out of state haphazardly showing up at meetings.

 

[have gun will travel]

Agreed

 

[mdunc8]

Npaden, what do you think would be more effective, one email or phone call to legislator from a lobbyist or thousands of emails and phone calls from individual hunters? Yes, traveling to public meetings probably isn't feasible for most nonresidents (not the case for most residents though). However, I'm sure most folks have figured out the internet and telephones by now.

Pinecricker and Havegunwilltravel, nonhunting groups and individuals already have a seat at the table, as they should. That's why it's called PUBLIC trust. You can either start learning how to play nice with most of them or prepare to get disappointed time and time again.

 

[have gun will travel]

Heavy hitting lobbyist have worked very well for the NRA.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

BuzzH, if you have the answer then I'm all ears, that's why I started this thread.

Instead of sarcasm, please enlighten us.

You're saying all I need to do is take some vacation time and go to a meeting or two in states that I can't vote and everything will be solved?

I don't think he is saying that at all. But rather that your time and voice working on the front end of wildlife management is more valuable than spending your money trying to fight tag allocations.

 

[mdunc8]

Heavy hitting lobbyist have worked very well for the NRA.

Fair enough. Keep letting someone you don't know take your money and do the heavy lifting. I hope it works out for you.

 

[roadhunter]

Nailed it. We will never accomplish anything fighting among ourselves or pretending that our brand of hunting is superior to the way others hunt. But that is what goes on here.*

Roadhunter got it right. For proof see the 1-3-15 thread on crossbows!

Be careful agreeing with me. Nobody likes me on this site because I am a mainstream hunter who does not dislike the way other people hunt like they do. I dont' preach hate or conflict like these folks do constantly. I preach acceptance and understanding of other styles of hunting in other parts of the country and world.

Buzz, Greenhorn, Shoots Straight, and Ben are just as bad as the Wolf crazies. They use the same tactics straw man, personal insults, half truths, exaggerations, chest thumping, acting like jerks, etc... they drive a wedge within the hunting community and that is why this site has turned from a pro hunting site to basically an anti hunting site filled with hate about all kinds of hunting from crossbows to TV hunters and especially people from other parts of the country like Texas or back East. Ultimately these folks consists of a handful of extremist who look down upon everyone else in the world for how they hunt because it's not how they do it in Montana, WY, CO, etc. They all believe their way is the only way and everyone else is dumb and every other state is screwed up. All you have to do is ask them, they will tell you. There is no point in having a discussion with them as they do not listen and already have their mind made up before it starts. If you want proof go look at the crossbow threads that have been closed. Go look at how they jump on NPaden for asking a simple question about what he could do to help support Western hunting without getting involved with the politics of some of these groups. Look at how they talk about other types of hunting.


All I can say is thank god most hunters dont' act like this as hunting would be no fun with a bunch of jerks in the woods all the time. These guys are basically to hunting what the Westboro Baptist church is to religion. Just a group of elitist extremist who dont' share the same vies that the vast majority of hunters but like to parade around the internet telling everyone how dumb they are for not having the same views. The proof is there for everyone to read.

 

[have gun will travel]

I'm not opposed to sending emails and letters. But you need to realize lobbyist are professionals that's what they do.. Do you do your own dental work no you leave that to a dentist.but for your part you brush your teeth. Every group out there uses lobbyist, that's how our government works today like it or not. I'm for an all of the above approach. We should leave no stone unturned.

 

[npaden]

Let's see if I can actually quote the correct people this time.

I don't think he is saying that at all. But rather that your time and voice working on the front end of wildlife management is more valuable than spending your money trying to fight tag allocations.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Sounds like he is advocating attending meetings.

A good first step would be for hunters to quit thinking that throwing a membership at some organization and buying a fishing license once a year is doing enough.

Seems everyone has vacation time and money enough to take little johnnie to the movies, Disneyland, Sea World, etc. etc. etc.. but very damn few seem interested and passionate enough to spend the same resources fighting for the future of hunting for little johnnie.

Much of what you can do to really make a difference doesn't even cost any money...just takes getting off the couch.

I can tell you right now, 99% of hunters/trappers/fishermen are not going to do a single extra of any kind for hunting, fishing, or trapping...they buy a license once a year and that's doing plenty.

I had this discussion with a friend of mine from Missoula a week before Christmas regarding a MTFWP meeting I attended in Missoula last summer regarding fee increases. I've been gone from Montana for 15 years and I knew over half the people that attended that meeting.

The faces of those doing the most haven't changed for a long, long, long time.

Stepping up to the plate and making a difference for wildlife and sportsmen isn't any kind of priority...Disneyland needs visiting.

When I stated that I should contribute and volunteer for species specific organizations that's when he threw the sarcasm out.

To me it seems that my time and money would be better served on something like that rather than showing up to meetings and fighting a losing battle on the tag allocations.

Setting up a vacation centered around helping on the ground with a habitat improvement project for RMEF or a similar organization sure sounds more appealing than attending unorganized meetings where I'm not wanted.

 

[BigHornRam]

The hunting community does have a lot of big ego's that makes it hard to find common ground over anything.

Good questions NPaden. My best advice would be find an organization that best suits you personally, and then get involved.