Valid concern or paranoia?

[Beignet]

I totally respect your choices of where you will or won’t shop, so this isn’t a critique of your choices but more so me piggybacking off of this to voice my opinion about what I am or not willing to do. Personally, I am less threatened by going to private property or places of business that have video surveillance because I am choosing whether or not to go there to do business and I factor the surveillance into the equation of whether or not I choose to shop.

I have placed surveillance cameras on my jobsite and signage that is visible at the entrance alerting workers and visitors there are cameras onsite. I do that partly as a deterrent to theft and vandalism and partly so I have potential recourse for prosecution for theft or vandalism. I’ve had both happen on my jobsite.

Persons who are not comfortable having their entrance and exit onto the property and into the house are not required to enter nor work on my jobsite.

However, I do not monitor the public road in front of the driveway or the neighboring properties with the intention of catching whatever potential criminal activity may be taking place in a public space or neighboring property.

To me one scenario involves informed consent because a person chooses to come onto private property for the sake of a business transaction. The other scenario (and flock cameras in public) involves a non consensual surveillance of someone going about their personal business in a public space.

This is different then building massive datasets to say, make a conclusion that someone with an MSU sticker on their car is more likely to shoplift than someone with a Griz sticker, then treat all following customers accordingly.

 

[Beignet]

I needed a couple tools and miscellaneous stuff today. I wanted to go to Lowe’s, but went to Home Depot instead. I will no longer be shopping at Lowe’s. Enough is enough. I really like Scheels, but I’m going to try to stay out of there too.

Depot probably just as bad. You have a locally owned friendly Ace hardware nearby?

 

[Nick87]

Depot probably just as bad. You have a locally owned friendly Ace hardware nearby?

I'm not sure it matters where you shop now.Given how many you pass on the way to any given store.

 

[Gerald Martin]

DeFlock

Find license plate readers (LPRs) near you.

deflock.org

Dang. Four cameras in Bozeman. Set up at the entrances to Lowe’s and the public road accessing it. I might start spending more time at stores that offer the same products without the integrated surveillance.

 

[mtmuley]

I totally respect your choices of where you will or won’t shop, so this isn’t a critique of your choices but more so me piggybacking off of this to voice my opinion about what I am or not willing to do. Personally, I am less threatened by going to private property or places of business that have video surveillance because I am choosing whether or not to go there to do business and I factor the surveillance into the equation of whether or not I choose to shop.

I have placed surveillance cameras on my jobsite and signage that is visible at the entrance alerting workers and visitors there are cameras onsite. I do that partly as a deterrent to theft and vandalism and partly so I have potential recourse for prosecution for theft or vandalism. I’ve had both happen on my jobsite.

Persons who are not comfortable having their entrance and exit onto the property and into the house are not required to enter nor work on my jobsite.

However, I do not monitor the public road in front of the driveway or the neighboring properties with the intention of catching whatever potential criminal activity may be taking place in a public space or neighboring property.

To me one scenario involves informed consent because a person chooses to come onto private property for the sake of a business transaction. The other scenario (and flock cameras in public) involves an non consensual surveillance of someone going about their personal business in a public space.

Sorry you have to do that. We don't here in the Root. Maybe @BuźzH
can chime in. mtmuley

 

[Southern Elk]

Depot probably just as bad. You have a locally owned friendly Ace hardware nearby?

I do. I shop there when I can. Unfortunately in the small tourist trap of a town I live in, they are a quite expensive. I saved a good bit of money at Home Depot. And as it pertains to the subject of this thread, I avoided the store with flock cameras and took my business to their competitor.

 

[Beignet]

Dang. Four cameras in Bozeman. Set up at the entrances to Lowe’s and the public road accessing it. I might start spending more time at stores that offer the same products without the integrated surveillance.
View attachment 414059

It was my impression that they’re not supposed to be collecting data from public roads in MT. That whole principal of having a choice to enter a private space or not.

 

[Bonasababy]

Sure. I get it. But I struggle rationaling the argument that we shouldn’t use things that might help reduce/solve crime because we can’t trust the LEOs. Sad that we have to monitor those hired to serve and protect. And we can’t ignore that the guy working at Verizon or Google can probably do something similarly nefarious.

The original video was from a woman who implied that it was the government watching the shooting range. It appears that the range put them up because of burglaries at local gun ranges (in 2023). Last News I saw said they have been taken down.

The same people that complain about thieves walking into a store and just picking up stuff and walking out without paying are concerned that a camera would take a photo of them? I bet they never thought that they would appreciate the ACLU. lol.

The shoplifting cameras vs flock etc is a really poor comparison. Far more concern and capability for malfeasance with the latter.

If the shooting range camera was a flock one, all kinds of people other than the range itself would have access to its data.

Would you feel the same if the range camera was accessed by anti gun forces?

 

[Bonasababy]

It was my impression that they’re not supposed to be collecting data from public roads in MT. That whole principal of having a choice to enter a private space or not.

Thats exactly what they said about Flock cameras here...until media data searches discovered other LE agencies...from other counties even other states...and the US Post Office!!...were using it for purposes local LEOs said was not allowed.

 

[Irrelevant]

That is NOT a public place! Let the qualification sink in.

But you're not doing anything illegal, right? So what's the harm?

 

[Bighorner]

On the list of things that this administration has done to erode civil rights and individual freedom, this issue is not in the top 20, probably not in the top 50.

What are the top 20. Google didn't give a clear list.

 

[Irrelevant]

Flock camera are certainly a top 10 current issue.

 

[Jack Ryan]

That quote was better in True Grit. Im not a huge fan of hypotheticals, but how else do you see all possible scenarios and issues?

You can consider them with out acting on them.

 

[Jack Ryan]

They were being installed between 2020 and 24. Not everything is about one side or the other, neither one really cares about the issues, just taking care of whichever corporation is funding their campaigns. Issues are just red herrings to keep the masses engaged in keeping what they think is their side in power.

Neither side is MY side. DJT is my side. I voted FOR Trump. I never voted FOR republicans, I voted AGAINST democrats though.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I needed a couple tools and miscellaneous stuff today. I wanted to go to Lowe’s, but went to Home Depot instead. I will no longer be shopping at Lowe’s. Enough is enough. I really like Scheels, but I’m going to try to stay out of there too.

You think HD is any better?

 

[Jack Ryan]

I personally think ALPRs are already an invasion of privacy, and they are heavily regulated in Montana because of our constitutional enhanced right to privacy. They typically aren’t used much in Montana other than in very specific circumstances.

As bad as regular LPRs are, the Flock cameras with AI are really scary. And as far as I’m aware there isn’t a single law enforcement agency in Montana that has a contract with them, so why are they still everywhere in Montana?

The flock camera company owns them and police only lease them. The Flock COMPANYA is using them collect data that they sell.

 

[Straight Arrow]

So what's the harm?

Perzactly!

 

[Southern Elk]

You think HD is any better?

This thread is about flock cameras. Lowe’s has them, Home Depot doesn’t. Thought I made that pretty clear in the previous post.