Utah cuts 13,000 deer permits

[1_pointer]

Pointer - You lived and worked on these issues for many years while planted in Utah. Do you think they have a problem that is fixable?

Not that you are DP, but if you were, what would be the long-term solutions you would put in place? Just curious, as my observations are always tainted by my bias toward preserving opportunity and keeping hunters in the field, with greater restrictions on access. Maybe that won't work in Utah.

Do you see them going the same route with deer as they did with elk? Extreme quality with very little opportunity.

I fully believe that it is fixable and think they are slowly heading that way. Just look at the CWMU for what could be to certain extent. Actually, and it pains me to say so, DP is helping quite a bit with the biggest long term issue and that is habitat quality. SPfW & SPH spend quite a bit of money annually on habitat projects. As rocs mentions, PJ encroachment is probably the biggest habitat issue in the state, IMO. A PJ expert contends that UT needs to treat 50k acres annually to just break even on the accumulation of biomass. It would take a big shift to really make this even possible, but given the commitment/money it could be done. Chaining would be the fastest/cheapest way to get started, however the amount backlash the agencies receive when this is proposed is immense. So, the alternatives being used are more expensive and slower to produce pretty much the same thing. But it's better than doing nothing and I think it's the right place to start.

I personally don't see UT going the way of elk with deer. That is something I think would get the resident sportsmen up in arms. I think it was a similar type issue that started DPs "reign". Similarly, the amount of friction created by vehicle restrictions is very high, especially for the Feds. Though it is getting better, but I really don't see that changing all that much until it is pushed harder by the state, which they seem very reluctant to do.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

so,,,as a non-resident is the utah general deer draw worth putting in for? will there be deer there or will it be a barrin wastland?

 

[jlmatthew]

so,,,as a non-resident is the utah general deer draw worth putting in for? will there be deer there or will it be a barrin wastland?

I think so. I have a couple friends over there and they wont even look twice at a buck under 185" and they seem to bag them on a regular basis and doing it with either the Statewide archery or southern tag.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

for me,as long as i can find a oportunity at anything decent{4 point} even medium sized ,that would probly be a shooter,do you think that could be found in the northern areas?

 

[OriginalOscar]

Utah is unique in several ways.

1) We have the greatest diversity of regions in the west. The difference between Northern and Southern Utah is profound and some years one or the other is in major drought. Southern Utah will experience long drought periods that affect the herds for a decade.

2) Utah is highly urbanized which has affected the herds in the entire Wasatch front region a span of 300 miles north to south. Historically some of the best deer winter range is gone.

3) Access / ATV / Poaching / Road Kill Compared to most western states Utah has to many people able to access the best deer habitat. This access is 365/24/7 and deer never get away from being harassed. Certain highways in Utah kills 100's of deer per year. Redneck teenagers or idiots often kill and leave deer while out in the hills.

4) Division of Wildlife (DWR) is a political pawn that is neutered from true game management. This issue goes back decades. At one point our ex governor Mike Leavitt's family ran a fish farm in Loa and when they were found to have introduced whirling disease into the state and the DWR attempted to shut them down there was political payback against the DWR. Our state legislature loves to torment the DWR with budget cuts and direction of pet initiatives based on what their constituents want. DWR Biologists don't get opportunity to apply science in many cases.

5) Statewide and then Region Permits. We are now moving to 29 separate deer units which is about 20 years to late. The past statewide and then 5 large regions allowed hunters to concentrate in certain areas. Most states use smaller units to disperse hunters and better suit the hunting to that unique area. We are 20 years late because of the politics.

6) Cronyism and Republican Politics. Look at the staff directory for SFW and you will see many former DWR people. Begs the question if they tried to work for all sportsmen and the benefit of the deer herds or what SFW wanted. Republicans value Landowner Rights above all and when they created the Cooperative Wildlife Management Units (CWMU) program years ago it was intended to give landowners an interest in protecting wildlife and promoting financial benefit to the landowners while also giving public hunters access to closed private lands. Several problems. 1) Public land can be locked up in a CWMU therefore closing that area to the public. 2) Fewer deer harvested from prime areas because the goal is to grow 30" or 180 class deer.

7) Predators. In the mid 90's while hunting buffalo on the Henry Mountain I was amazed at the lack of deer and swarms of coyotes. Between the coyotes and lions the deer could not increase. Utah did offer harvest objective lion tags for years and finally the herd increased. Agreed with Fin that predator control isn't the silver bullet in all cases but with the other issues deer in Utah face they need help in all areas. There is discussion of a statewide bounty on coyotes and the DWR has helped keep the lion population under control

 

[yotestalker]

Utah has experienced population growth like no other Rocky Mountain state. Most of that growth has occured on the Wastach Front and other valleys and foothills that are critical winter ground for mule deer.

I think your comment is spot on. I live and hunt in Utah and have seen the sprawl of homes destroy what used to be winter grounds for deer. In some situations those deer have nowhere else to go and it has been a leading cause of their decline in numbers. Unfortunately I don't think there's a way to get that back. Mule deer are a very delicate species, much more so than elk. At this point I think it's a matter of preserving what we have left. Managing the deer herd along the populous wasatch front is a difficult job with no real answers. Are less tags and less opportunity to hunt going to be an answer? I hate to see it go that way, but that seems to be one option brought up a lot. There are however legitimate reasons why that option may not even help the problem.
The current changes in tag numbers and unit boundaries may help to some degree, but preserving and building winter habitat is going to be key. Along with predator control and limiting access. I think most of us could agree on that.
On the other hand certain parts of Utah (Paunsagaut and Henrys) are being managed for trophy class and are now some of the best mule deer hunting around.