SB 281: Reducing the number of antleress B tags for Non--Residents

[Ben Lamb]

LAWS Detailed Bill Information Page

This is part of the MCEMC/MOGA consensus package. The bill would place a restriction on NR's to be able to only purchase up to two B8 antlerless deer licenses if they hold a B10 or b11 Big Game/Deer combo license, and 1 B8 license if you do not.

Over the last 10 years, NR Antlerless license sales have climbed over from around 6,500 to over 13,000. This bill does not eliminate NR opportunity for antlerless harvest, but it does help get to a critical issue of overcrowding on public land, and over-harvest of antlerless mule deer. I expect we will see big reductions in resident antlerless harvest opportunities in the next round of season setting.

Back of the Napkin calculations indicate that this could result in 3-4,000 fewer B8's sold, and if we use the hunter day multiplier of 4-5 days per animal, that's between 15,000 & 20,000 fewer hunter days in the field. Not a huge drop, but a positive step in the right direction.

We are expecting this to be up in committee next week, and I'll update this thread when it's scheduled. We are hoping for folks to comment in support of this bill to the Senate Fish & Wildlife Committee once scheduled.

 

[Beignet]

Saw this while poking around on the legislative website last night. Happy to see someone make an attempt at chipping NR tags down instead of giving away more discounted opportunity.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Saw this while poking around on the legislative website last night. Happy to see someone make an attempt at chipping NR tags down instead of giving away more discounted opportunity.

There will be 4-6 more bills in this vein coming this session.

 

[Beignet]

There will be 4-6 more bills in this vein coming this session.

What’s your read on the possibility of any of them passing?

 

[Ben Lamb]

What’s your read on the possibility of any of them passing?

3-4 of them have a good shot at passing. More on this by next week.

 

[rmyoung1]

@Ben Lamb … Honest question here: If we are trying to reduce pressure on deer and reduce the harvest of mule deer does, why don’t we just limit B tags in the first place? You know… biology and all that…

 

[BuzzH]

Not to be a Debby Downer....but, just a question.

Are the 3-4 thousand tags that NR's will not get going to be reissued to Residents? Is it just assumed that Residents won't buy them?

Is the goal to just have fewer NR's hunter days, or less hunter days over-all?

If the bill will meet the objective, I hope it passes...I'm really struggling to see what the objective is for sure.

 

[jt13]

Not to be a Debby Downer....but, just a question.

Are the 3-4 thousand tags that NR's will not get going to be reissued to Residents? Is it just assumed that Residents won't buy them?

Is the goal to just have fewer NR's hunter days, or less hunter days over-all?

If the bill will meet the objective, I hope it passes...I'm really struggling to see what the objective is for sure.

I was thinking the same thing...

This doesn't reduce harvest or crowding. It just changes the license plate on the back of the pick up truck

 

[Ben Lamb]

@Ben Lamb … Honest question here: If we are trying to reduce pressure on deer and reduce the harvest of mule deer does, why don’t we just limit B tags in the first place? You know… biology and all that…

The bill does limit the amount of NR's who can purchase, so yes it will help reduce pressure on this side of the equation.

The resident portion of this comes during the season setting portion of 2023/2024. So we're not just trading the license plates. Given the population reports that we're seeing out of R5,6,7, I think it's fair to say that those OTC 5 B tags aren't going to be a huge lift to reduce.

More importantly, this stops the massive over-subscription of NR antlerless and provides legislative diretive to keep the issuance of these NR's tags lower than they have been. e legislative guidance is critical especially as it relates to NR licenses, which ostensibly are more statutorily regulated than resident hunting opportunity, which more of a commission authority issue.

one does not negate the need to work on the other, and from our perspective, season setting is the next step in ensuring better management via pressure, while still being responsive to the issues raised with overpopulation in some areas relative to whitetail, and not curtailing the commission's authority relative to CWD management, etc.

 

[BuzzH]

Ben,

Respectfully, I don't see where it limits the number of NR's that can purchase a B-tag, only limits the number each NR can buy according to:

1. Other license type held either a nr deer combo, or a big game combo, can have 2 per sportsmen.
2. Those that don't hold either of those license types can have only 1.

Where is the language that its limits the number of NR's?

The way I read it, is that if say, I have a NR deer combo, my buddy has a NR deer combo we can each get 2 additional b-tags. If I bring a dozen of my friends that didn't draw, they can each buy 1. Further, if I drug a thousand of my closest buddies to Montana they could all buy one as well?

What am I missing?

I think its a good idea to limit the number any single sportsman can purchase, but isn't it a better idea to limit total NR hunters? Isn't that the objective?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben,

Respectfully, I don't see where it limits the number of NR's that can purchase a B-tag, only limits the number each NR can buy according to:

1. Other license type held either a nr deer combo, or a big game combo, can have 2 per sportsmen.
2. Those that don't hold either of those license types can have only 1.

Where is the language that its limits the number of NR's?

The way I read it, is that if say, I have a NR deer combo, my buddy has a NR deer combo we can each get 2 additional b-tags. If I bring a dozen of my friends that didn't draw, they can each buy 1. Further, if I drug a thousand of my closest buddies to Montana they could all buy one as well?

What am I missing?

I think its a good idea to limit the number any single sportsman can purchase, but isn't it a better idea to limit total NR hunters? Isn't that the objective?

You are correct, I misspoke. It limits the # of licenses anyone can get. It is not a cap on the # of licenses. Long day, my apologies.

Realistically capping the # of NR's likely wouldn't pass the legislature and the agency wasn't receptive to this approach due to their desire to maintain flexibility on antlerless for whitetail (primarily), so this is the bill.

We had discussed reigning in the orphaned license issue relative to the turn in on the B10, but that discussion was met with about a $3 million fiscal note.

3-4,000 is a conservative number as well. We'll reassess after a couple of years if this passes, and whatever the data is, the data is.

 

[BuzzH]

You are correct, I misspoke. It limits the # of licenses anyone can get. It is not a cap on the # of licenses. Long day, my apologies.

Realistically capping the # of NR's likely wouldn't pass the legislature and the agency wasn't receptive to this approach due to their desire to maintain flexibility on antlerless for whitetail (primarily), so this is the bill.

We had discussed reigning in the orphaned license issue relative to the turn in on the B10, but that discussion was met with about a $3 million fiscal note.

3-4,000 is a conservative number as well. We'll reassess after a couple of years if this passes, and whatever the data is, the data is.

I still think that's a good idea and a good bill, it should limit the number of NR's that are just looking to fill the back of the truck.

Good luck on getting the commission to reduce total B-tags, that is not going to be an easy lift.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I still think that's a good idea and a good bill, it should limit the number of NR's that are just looking to fill the back of the truck.

Good luck on getting the commission to reduce total B-tags, that is not going to be an easy lift.

Nothing good is easy.

Except your mom.

 

[golfer]

You are correct, I misspoke. It limits the # of licenses anyone can get. It is not a cap on the # of licenses. Long day, my apologies.

Realistically capping the # of NR's likely wouldn't pass the legislature and the agency wasn't receptive to this approach due to their desire to maintain flexibility on antlerless for whitetail (primarily), so this is the bill.

We had discussed reigning in the orphaned license issue relative to the turn in on the B10, but that discussion was met with about a $3 million fiscal note.

3-4,000 is a conservative number as well. We'll reassess after a couple of years if this passes, and whatever the data is, the data is.

How hard would it be to cap the number of available does tags in a region for NR to 10% just like LE permits?

 

[Gerald Martin]

How hard would it be to cap the number of available does tags in a region for NR to 10% just like LE permits?

This is a good idea. The unlimited single region tags would probably need to be eliminated since by law any unlimited tag can be bought without falling under the 90/10 cap.

B licenses would be limited to 10% NR by REGION not by unit like the 10% cap currently is.

That would help lower total number of NR boots on the ground.
I am as concerned about the total number of folks in the field than I am how many tags each one has.

 

[Southern Elk]

Why not limit to 1 instead of 2? Nobody needs to travel out of state to shoot a truck load of does.

 

[Ben Lamb]

This is a good idea. The unlimited single region tags would probably need to be eliminated since by law any unlimited tag can be bought without falling under the 90/10 cap.

B licenses would be limited to 10% NR by REGION not by unit like the 10% cap currently is.

That would help lower total number of NR boots on the ground.
I am as concerned about the total number of folks in the field than I am how many tags each one has.

You'd need legislation to do this, and it sounds like something along these lines is coming.

Why not limit to 1 instead of 2? Nobody needs to travel out of state to shoot a truck load of does.

The thoughts were that by providing 2 licenses for those with a combo, you're not extending as many hunter days as you are with the stand alone, IIRC. Especially if those are going to be filled primarily on private land. I would imagine that with commission changes, we could work to ensure that antlerless tags are good on private land only, which would be a good change and help ensure that problematic concentrations of wildlife are dealt with rather than plugging does on public land/publicly accessible private.

All of the consensus package bills are negotiated, so nobody got everything they wanted, but these are what we all could agree too. Politics remains the art of the possible.

 

[8andcounting]

I still think that's a good idea and a good bill, it should limit the number of NR's that are just looking to fill the back of the truck.

Problem with this is it won’t do anything to keep more deer alive the full trucks will just be resident trucks . Once again it’s Montana residents refusal to look in the mirror and say “we” are the problem . I like this bill I hope it passes , but it won’t keep any more deer alive the tags will still get sold the deer will still get shot . Until Fwp completely cuts b tags nothing will help

 

[cgasner1]

Problem with this is it won’t do anything to keep more deer alive the full trucks will just be resident trucks . Once again it’s Montana residents refusal to look in the mirror and say “we” are the problem . I like this bill I hope it passes , but it won’t keep any more deer alive the tags will still get sold the deer will still get shot . Until Fwp completely cuts b tags nothing will help

It’s bad enough that any change is a good change at this point. I’ll keep making my donation to fwp and buying the tags to look at on my phone and not fill

 

[Ben Lamb]

Problem with this is it won’t do anything to keep more deer alive the full trucks will just be resident trucks . Once again it’s Montana residents refusal to look in the mirror and say “we” are the problem . I like this bill I hope it passes , but it won’t keep any more deer alive the tags will still get sold the deer will still get shot . Until Fwp completely cuts b tags nothing will help

Again, Season setting happens starting this year. That's the time to work on the changes for B tags for residents. This bill is not a stand alone effort, but part of the larger package and that includes adjustments for the season setting process.